This game prepares no one for raid/hard content

[Enla]

There is a discord called Starbreakers Network for exactly that reason (running stuff synced and/or at min ilvl).

That being said, getting learning/clear groups for actual Ex Primal content gets harder the older the content is (this usually happends around 4-6 weeks after release). Hades Ex is an outlier, most PUGs (at least on my DC) have abandoned trying it already.

Which is weird because Hades EX kinda breaks the third EX curse that has been set in place since Thordan. It's really not that hard.

[Rilifane]

I've been playing the game for a good few months now, I've got through most raids and did the new nier raid last week which is all fine and dandy, but then I got to thinking again about leveling up dungeons, end game dungeons, and then comparing them to raids and ext trials etc.

Leveling up, the game holds your hand in such a way in that you're not even slightly prepared for end game content, mechanics used in raids and ext trials are changed in such a way in that the player has absolutally no clue what's happening to the degree where they can't go "ohhhh right, I should of done this or that", you spend your dungeon/journey to 80 staring at orange markers on the floor or seeing a boss doing a very telegraphed mechanic, whereas you can go into a raid like Dun Scaith and not have the slightest clue what's happening regardless of how many times you do the mechanic "wrong".

I think what baffles me the most is why there isn't an easy mode of some of these raids before throwing people into what is basically the hard version, in which the telegraph for a big damage mechanic ends up being a "look at the small boss spread its wings in a certain direction and avoid being in line with it", it's fine having a gigantic boss move it's massive arm back before swinging down 1 half of the arena as it's "obvious" enough to learn from it once its happened, but even then, I go back to the whole "you spend your dungeon/journey to 80 staring at orange markers on the floor" to suddenly just dying out of nowhere and wondering why.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine learning dungeons, and I've done most the content fine, I'm simply making a post on my confusion about the inconsistency with this game and the random sporadic difficulty in dungeons, raids and trials, such as why is the nier raid actually quite easy compared to some of the previous raids? after 2 nier runs I thought "ok I've learnt all the mechs with relative ease", yet I can go back to older raids that I wasn't about during their release and still have trouble with some of them.

The game starts teaching you as early as ARR.
Even if you only do mandatory MSQ group content you already get to see a lot of important mechanics and markers. There are some strange spikes in difficulty though overall, dungeons are generally very easy and basically the safe enviroment for learning because if you fail, it likely won't cause a wipe.
You get to see various telegraphs, markers, add mechanics, delayed mechanics and several instances where you need to pay attention to the boss' castbar. Looking back, I'm actually amazed how many mechanics you see later are already present in low level dungeons.
If you add optional content, even low-level dungeons like Cutter's Cry or Aurum Vale teach you some things.

There is one problem though: because it's MSQ content and the story is captivating, escpecially if you play it for the first time, many players don't even consider seeing it as a learning experience because they're so focused on the story. That's completely understandable. "I need to adjust my UI so I see the boss' castbar better" is usually not the first thought people have after running Sirenson Sea.
But if someone wants to learn they need to tackle content with the appropriate mindset.
Some people have run a dungeon a dozen times and are still surprised by the same mechanics because their focus was always just getting through somehow. And if they died, many just wait for a ress while zoning out instead of watching the fight from the floor and trying to figure out what's happening.

Alli Raids teach you a good deal of additional mechanics and extremes are the stepping stone into savage. The learning curve is not as obvious as in other games and imo not as smooth either but it's there and someone willing to learn has the opportunity to do so. The problem is more that too many people completey zone out while leveling and are suddenly 80 and surprised by most common mechanics.
If there is a new mechanic introduced, I see many people react with "I don't know what to do, so I'll just do nothing" instead of at least trying to interpret what they see. Sometimes they might guess wrong and tank the floor but they paid attention, they tried and at least know they know how to not do it.

[Schan]

Hmm I disagree. I find the game does a decent job at teaching you without you realizing.

Dungeons introduce stuff you might see further ahead and when tackling harder content the bosses always start by first showing you what mechanics they are going to use and as the fight advances they start combining them into more challeging ones.

The devs have been streamlining things. It's true some things are still weird but they have been working on it. I remember when Ozma didn't have the "look away" marker despite having a mechanic that required you to.

With that said once they streamlined the look away marker i realized something as well. When you start the game you are very much into the mindset of "dodge the orange stuff on the floor" but low level mobs with gaze attack also have orange markers. So as a newb I was curious as to why have the look away marker and have an orange marker only to realize that... you are given 2 ways of dealing with it when you're new. you either move away from the orange marker or you look away.

If you take a step back you can see how each expansion has a certain "theme" of mechanics. I believe HW started to introduce the cast time tank busters and the whole ATM(?) mechanics

Stormblood you got the bosses jump out of the arena on a regular basis and having fight dependant usable items. Also the game is shifting from a more reactionary playstyle to a more proactive playstyle. You are required to pay attention to what the boss is doing because simply dodging the orange markers is not enough now. You need to preemptively dodge based on watching what the boss is doing.

So far Shadowbringers is mixing all of that with a greater emphasis on bosses jumping away to do massive attacks that you can dodge if you look at what the boss is doing instead of just reacting to the orange markers.

That is my experience and what I notice that has been happening.

[EnigmaticDodo]

As a newer player trying to learn...

My issue is the difficulty in getting people to run extreme primals as a leveling player to learn in the “middle core” difficulty to prepare for savage... you can try for days just to get a group together for a synced extreme.

So yes that content exists.. but trying to do get people to do that content without being unsynced (which kind of defeats the purpose for the new people learning) is hopeless most the time.

I'd try to run with ya if you were on my Data Center... Most people don't want to do it because they get no reward from it. For me, completing the content is the reward. I personally like difficult stuff, but it seems like most things have a short shelf life and then nobody ever wants to do them again.

[TalithaSolarien]

Which is weird because Hades EX kinda breaks the third EX curse that has been set in place since Thordan. It's really not that hard.

I think thats mostly due to the 4 separate DPS checks which are (for people without Eden savage gear) currently kinda tough to beat. Not impossible but currently there are not many practice groups online anymore on Light.

[SamSmoot]

I do prepare. I won't run a new raid or dungeon unless I've at least watched enough training videos, so I know what to expect. I recently ran Eden 4 for blades, and made sure I watched the vid for that. since I hadn't run it for a month. (Still died 3 times

Recently, my FC pulled me along for a copied factory run on the first day, and it was a disaster. I think I died about 20 times in that one.. I'll never run another instance blind again.

[EnigmaticDodo]

I do prepare. I won't run a new raid or dungeon unless I've at least watched enough training videos, so I know what to expect. I recently ran Eden 4 for blades, and made sure I watched the vid for that. since I hadn't run it for a month. (Still died 3 times

Recently, my FC pulled me along for a copied factory run on the first day, and it was a disaster. I think I died about 20 times in that one.. I'll never run another instance blind again.

I don't feel you need to really look up NORMAL versions of things (don't let me stop you though!). I think they are designed to be completed, now for EXs and what not? Yeah, go for that. I wish more folks did that just so they know what to expect. Would be a better experience.

[Noitems]

Normal versions of the fights honestly are your tutorial. The fights prepare you with very similar names to what is done in the EX/Savage versions of the fights. Look at Hades for example

Ravenous Assault? Exact same tankbuster name in normal and EX.

The only difference in between normal and EX is the fact he casts double first, meaning the attack will hit twice in EX, while in normal he doesn't.

Bad Faith? The exact same mechanic in normal and EX, the only difference is because he had Double, the attack will hit twice.

The normal mode prepares you for the EX, and by using the same names gives players an idea of "How will this be in EX?"

Sometimes in the case of E1S a mechanic like Pure Light changes into something COMPLETELY different, but the core of aoe circles and lasers chasing you is going to be the same, it's how you have to handle those two that allow normal and EX to be vastly different experiences.

[Crasherino]

Normal mode is easy mode. Maybe just get better?

Or, try reading my OP and understand that I have no problem with the difficulty of this game, as quoted from my self "I'm fine learning dungeons, and I've done most the content fine, I'm simply making a post on my confusion about the inconsistency with this game and the random sporadic difficulty in dungeons, raids and trials", there is no "git gud" problem for me here, if I do a dungeon then I learn it fine and I'm generally good to run it after a few tries.

When I see newer players enter a some raids or other end game content, I can see them make the same mistake repeatidly because the game with some mechanics does a poor job explaining what on earth is actually going on, sometimes you have to pay attention purely to the text to prepare to avoid a mechanic, or like the second to last giant boss in the NieR raid, text comes up and it launches a bunch of balls up into the sky, which actually does nothing to the player, and you have to see that the boss is in fact doing that which means no longer staring at the floor which is what you do for most of your dungeoning experience, suddenly the boss decides to do a frontal line blast that you can't avoid once you see it starting if you're standing in the middle of the arena once the giant beam begins to charge, that's just one small example of "what on earth was I supposed to do to avoid that?" my answer is "read the text and bring your camera up at the boss, and remember it's pattern", but I guess telling me to get better solves this debate entirely as well.

[Alynn]

24 man raids are a poor argument to be quite honest with you. You see every round of mechanics at least 2-3 times, so there really isn't an excuse not to know what to do when you see the mechanic. There aren't even that many mechanics per every 24 man boss. Think back to WoD, Dun Scaith, Rabanastre, it's all the same move set.

That being said, dungeons do a lot of the teaching. The game isn't going to baby you through every fight possible. It teaches you what it does and then expects you to apply it. You learn that the orange stack marks means stack? You do it in the future. If you have a orange marker over your head? It's probably splash damage on you and you should avoid hitting other people.

Lastly, as hard as it is to believe, if you hover over your skills, it tells you what it does, shocking right. However, because no one tries to read these tips, they just roll their face across the keyboard and never learn some semblance of a rotation.

Tl;dr people will git gud if they care enough because the game does enough babysitting up until level 70, even arguably 60.