No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[HyoMinPark]

You need to relax. I'm not gonna reply to everything in this response because honestly I just don't care enough. But, I need to address a few things you brought up...so, if the healer is able to get through content and keep everybody reasonably healed up, they are NOT a bad healer. To heck with the rest of your superfluous standards and nitpicks, speaking as a Savage/EX Tank myself, if my healer can keep us healed up and allow us to progress through content, hey are a fine healer. Period. You're really coming off as an elitist right now. Also, speaking as a Tank who literally ALWAYS pulls wall to wall, if a Tank chooses to pull mob by mob, it's not a "snail's pace", stop being disrespectful. Some players prefer to do things differently and know what they can and cannot handle, and if their role gives them the authority to control just that, RESPECT THAT, or you have no business playing with a team. Pulling wall to wall isn't required to clear any content, and that's all that needs to be said.

Some of you guys need to really stop treating this game like some nonsense office setting/work setting. It's so incredibly annoying, all you care about is efficiency, productivity, no mistakes, do things this way and only this way, you must abide by my subjective standards. If that's the poisonous outlook you choose to have, then you need to keep that to yourself, and stop trying to push it onto others online who are just trying to have a fun time playing Final Fantasy. If they are clearing content, they are fine.

I am perfectly relaxed, but thank you for your concern.

I‘ll call out anyone who has poor habits. Sorry if that offends you. Sitting on instant heals for emergencies is poor play, and is equivalent to PLDs that “save” Hallowed Ground instead of planning its use around spicier pulls. It means you’re ignoring your strongest heals for virtually no reason—and likely compensating for inefficient GCD heals in their place. I’m sorry that you have an allergy to efficiency; I do not, and I use every tool at my disposal.

A person who expects me to spend 90 minutes in a dungeon—which was what the post I replied to actually said—is moving at a snail’s pace. Worse so, actually. No, I’m not committed to a 90-minute dungeon run simply because the instance timer reads 90 minutes. If the party wants larger pulls, the outlier can either acquiesce or leave. Majority rules.

And I don’t think you have much room to call me the elitist or disrespectful after reading your response. Elitism goes both ways, and you’re not coming off as very polite yourself, my dude. And I’d say you cared enough about my post to make this response to “call me out”. Otherwise, you would have never made it.

[Pheryx]

As a Ninja I love wall to wall pulls, that way my AOEs don't go to waste.

[Windwalker]

I tend to go crazy with a WHM healing me and more careful with SCH or AST. WHM are the best healers, tons of regen, insta full heal ability and holy to stun. You can pull the entire dungeon, pop your cooldowns and the WHM can put regens on you and just spam holy untill everything is dead. If the party wipes, i tend to go easier and check how good the healer is and what they did wrong. Quite a bit of newbie healers who don't pay attention or don't use their skillset at all. Use your skills people, don't be lazy.

[Windwalker]

I am perfectly relaxed, but thank you for your concern.

I‘ll call out anyone who has poor habits. Sorry if that offends you. Sitting on instant heals for emergencies is poor play, and is equivalent to PLDs that “save” Hallowed Ground instead of planning its use around spicier pulls. It means you’re ignoring your strongest heals for virtually no reason—and likely compensating for inefficient GCD heals in their place. I’m sorry that you have an allergy to efficiency; I do not, and I use every tool at my disposal.

A person who expects me to spend 90 minutes in a dungeon—which was what the post I replied to actually said—is moving at a snail’s pace. Worse so, actually. No, I’m not committed to a 90-minute dungeon run simply because the instance timer reads 90 minutes. If the party wants larger pulls, the outlier can either acquiesce or leave. Majority rules.

And I don’t think you have much room to call me the elitist or disrespectful after reading your response. Elitism goes both ways, and you’re not coming off as very polite yourself, my dude. And I’d say you cared enough about my post to make this response to “call me out”. Otherwise, you would have never made it.

Yeah, or healing cooldowns, free healing costing no mp and so on. On big pulls you just pop those and the tank survives easilly.

[Kobalos]

If it is a low lvl dungeon I tend to only pull 2-3 packs of mobs, high lvl i'll pull a little more
But seriously this is an mmo guys what ever happened to communicating with you team ans asking if big pulls are ok?

[CazzT]

Then you either have a bad healer or a simple mistake. Even the best players sometimes misjudge. I would rather wipe because a healer mistimed Tetra than have one spamming Cure II every time my HP dropped below 70%. Pulling smaller just means I'll DPS even more aggressively. Whenever I have tanks do a small pull, I'll play "how low can you go" because I'm bored. That has nothing to do with wanting to play a green DPS but the fact this game doesn't require healers to do much healing. If you're doing a small pull, I can keep you alive with Regen and the occasional Lily while I afk. That's how pathetic small pulls are, and why I'll spam Holy.

I don't like doing small pulls. It goes against everything a Tank is. I often joke about Tanks and the "proper way to tank" being "if you can see it, it needs to be pulled". But when I'm seeing myself hovering around 10-20% and I see the Healer casting DPS spells, I'm not OK with that, because that results in deaths more often than not.

I don't know where this notion is coming from that I'd rather be topped off and the healer keeping me at 100% all the time. I've never said anything of the sort, nor have I implied such. I've been very clear that my issue is with leaving tanks at low HP while HealDPSing. I'm not asking to be 100%, I'm expecting to not be at danger levels so the Healer can omglulzdps.

[Phireblast]

My worry isn't the OP. My worry is the 30 people who upvoted them.

[WarzonePrez]

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

You're new here, aren't you?

[Videra]

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

I worry for the fools who agree with this.

[Lambdafish]

snip

This is an excellent breakdown, but I feel like you missed an important detail in clarifying the difference between entitlement and affordance. Without mentioning this, it makes you come off as elitist (which I of course know you aren't, because I know where to fill in the blanks in common sense, but not everyone knows that and your argument may fall apart).

What you say is that there is absolutely no excuse for pulling one mob at a time, and that is simply not true, life is far more complicated than that, and there are times when anyone could perform sub-optimally. The way your post comes across is that players cannot perform sub-optimally ever, and that dungeons must be high-pressure situations for all players. In theory, yes, you are right, and players should strive to make this their aim as a player, and recognise that big pulls are the best way to perform the content.

This is where entitlement and affordance come into play. A party where a tank expects the party to work around them and is ignorant to the time of 3 other people, that is a bad, selfish tank. However, a party where a tank is afforded a little bit of leeway, due to something they have apologized for in chat and talked to the party about is a very different scenario. I think pro-big pull post needs to have a big disclaimer that says "If you have approached the dungeon with a positive attitude, and asked the party if you can take it slower, there is nothing wrong with that". I imagine this was implied in your post, but its absence makes it sound like you are unsympathetic and elitist towards handicaps and people who are just having an off day. At the end of the day, it's a dungeon, not a savage raid.

Half these arguments could be solved by looking at it from an attitude perspective rather than an efficiency and numbers perspective.