Summoner is doing too much in 5.10

[Kabooa]

If you want to consider balance around ultimate, raise shouldnt have tax on it, you wont be able to clear in a situation where caster need to do raise, especially when the ultimate is still revelant.

If you don't want a raise tax, advocate for it's removal.

It's that simple.

[Miminming]

My first UWU clear was 9 days after release, and I have 20 or so uploaded clears (I have a few more not uploaded) before you had access to better gear. UCoB I wasn't subbed when it actually released but I did clear it (and multiple times after) before 345 gear was available, so I still had the same item level as anyone else in 4.1, and even the SMN nerfs on top of it.

And if you don't believe me, then here:
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed

No i believe you but if you clear 9 days after release it mean you are like top of top, which provably not the best data to be taken into account on balancing.

As for removing raise, believe me most caster agree (probably not the casual one), though i prefer adding res to blm with 2 min cooldown on all caster raise.

[Shurrikhan]

No i believe you but if you clear 9 days after release it mean you are like top of top, which provably not the best data to be taken into account on balancing.

As for removing raise, believe me most caster agree (probably not the casual one), though i prefer adding res to blm with 2 min cooldown on all caster raise.

Don't trust her opinion about the job! She knows it too well!

I kid, but honestly the top of the top should be what we look at for numeric balancing, with lower percentiles (within a given set of conditions, such as no deaths, etc) then being looked at for their drop-off from those more perfect parses, as to find further imbalances in ease of play or identify QoL issues that may be removed or just accepted by the time one reaches the highest tiers of play. Those other parts are hugely important, but their interest should be aimed at approaching those higher percentages, with only the top of the top being the gold standard for what a job should be capable of on the whole.

[Miminming]

Don't trust her opinion about the job! She knows it too well!

I kid, but honestly the top of the top should be what we look at for numeric balancing, with lower percentiles (within a given set of conditions, such as no deaths, etc) then being looked at for their drop-off from those more perfect parses, as to find further imbalances in ease of play or identify QoL issues that may be removed or just accepted by the time one reaches the highest tiers of play. Those other parts are hugely important, but their interest should be aimed at approaching those higher percentages, with only the top of the top being the gold standard for what a job should be capable of on the whole.

High as in 90-95 percentile is good but theres a reason people excluded 99 and max parse...

[MitsukiKimura]

My first UWU clear was 9 days after release, and I have 20 or so uploaded clears (I have a few more not uploaded) before you had access to better gear. UCoB I wasn't subbed when it actually released but I did clear it (and multiple times after) before 345 gear was available, so I still had the same item level as anyone else in 4.1, and even the SMN nerfs on top of it.

And if you don't believe me, then here:
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed

Not sure why this is even in this thread.

On the contrary... Summoner seems really powerful of late. I'm all for the if the class is more difficult it should do more damage but it having a raise, party buff and small heal for party members. Black mage mains pain is real.

[zonol]

Mch needs more

[Madoka]

Not sure why this is even in this thread.

On the contrary... Summoner seems really powerful of late. I'm all for the if the class is more difficult it should do more damage but it having a raise, party buff and small heal for party members. Black mage mains pain is real.

The buff is only like 200-250 rdps. The heal is laughable. Almost all of the contention is about Raise.

[Miminming]

Not sure why this is even in this thread.

On the contrary... Summoner seems really powerful of late. I'm all for the if the class is more difficult it should do more damage but it having a raise, party buff and small heal for party members. Black mage mains pain is real.

Only raise worth mentioning, party buff? You are looking at rdps which include it already...

[Akiudo]

Only raise worth mentioning, party buff? You are looking at rdps which include it already...

to be fair, the damage buff is indeed included so completly irrelevant, the heal however as worthless as it is (and you don't need to tell me, i fully believe it is freaking wortless 99,5% of cases) is still existant, people more than once in different threads called things like "wardens paen" out as a reason a bard not only should but in fact needs to do less than a mch, and that thing hasn't even worked on literally anything in shadowbringers so far, like yes the heal is really the faintest of utility, but in a really really perfect world it would have to be accounted for for the rare case ......." mind you in the end it errs so much on the side of "worthless" that any "accounting for the phoenix heal as utility" should cost so little to average out when its actually usefull it would statistically look like margin of error, talking like 50 dps on the high end here

[Nemekh]

The buff is only like 200-250 rdps. The heal is laughable. Almost all of the contention is about Raise.

Don't get me wrong, Devotion is one of the weaker synergy buffs of the ones available, however, it's only that weak in a party that poorly uses it. Devotion's higher in a reasonable synergy comp with solid play.

The heal's definitely not laughable and is something healers can account for when optimising. But it's not something we will play around healers for. FBT happens when it needs to happen, not when healers want EF.