Summoner is doing too much in 5.10

[Madoka]

Not sure why this is even in this thread.

On the contrary... Summoner seems really powerful of late. I'm all for the if the class is more difficult it should do more damage but it having a raise, party buff and small heal for party members. Black mage mains pain is real.

The buff is only like 200-250 rdps. The heal is laughable. Almost all of the contention is about Raise.

[Nemekh]

The buff is only like 200-250 rdps. The heal is laughable. Almost all of the contention is about Raise.

Don't get me wrong, Devotion is one of the weaker synergy buffs of the ones available, however, it's only that weak in a party that poorly uses it. Devotion's higher in a reasonable synergy comp with solid play.

The heal's definitely not laughable and is something healers can account for when optimising. But it's not something we will play around healers for. FBT happens when it needs to happen, not when healers want EF.

[Madoka]

Don't get me wrong, Devotion is one of the weaker synergy buffs of the ones available, however, it's only that weak in a party that poorly uses it. Devotion's higher in a reasonable synergy comp with solid play.

The heal's definitely not laughable and is something healers can account for when optimising. But it's not something we will play around healers for. FBT happens when it needs to happen, not when healers want EF.

Honestly I'm taking the 200-250 from top smn numbers. Where their rdps and adps differences are only like 200 and their parties probably know what devotion actually looks like on the buff bar. My personal rdps and adps differences are usually maybe 100 and I know my team doesn't try and take advantage of it at all, i just do my best to line it up with trick so that we can do more damage.

EF is 7 ticks of about 2500-3000HP. It can be helpful if it comes up during raidwides but honestly I don't see many healers take it into consideration when healing when it's total healing done is the same as if they slap rapture or Assize or something and the moments it can be clutch in are probably also wipe situations. It's just a regen for about 20k hp every 2 minutes and most smns seem to have 80% or higher overheal amounts in any fight so even when we pop it during raidwides the healers are probably popping some other big boy stuff to top everyone off in 1-2 casts to go back to doing damage.

So again it's majorly about the raise.

[Nemekh]

Honestly I'm taking the 200-250 from top smn numbers. Where their rdps and adps differences are only like 200 and their parties probably know what devotion actually looks like on the buff bar. My personal rdps and adps differences are usually maybe 100 and I know my team doesn't try and take advantage of it at all, i just do my best to line it up with trick so that we can do more damage.

EF is 7 ticks of about 2500-3000HP. It can be helpful if it comes up during raidwides but honestly I don't see many healers take it into consideration when healing when it's total healing done is the same as if they slap rapture or Assize or something and the moments it can be clutch in are probably also wipe situations. It's just a regen for about 20k hp every 2 minutes and most smns seem to have 80% or higher overheal amounts in any fight so even when we pop it during raidwides the healers are probably popping some other big boy stuff to top everyone off in 1-2 casts to go back to doing damage.

So again it's majorly about the raise.

Those are not top numbers for Devotion at all. Even in my raid group that only does weeklies, Devotion is more than double your quoted range on a full uptime encounter (Voidwalker).

For groups that optimise this gets pushed further. If you're only judging it from adps vs rdps that's such an incorrect lens to view it through because SMN always, always, always takes more than it gives from Devotion if it's a competent group with a modicum+ of synergy. That kind of quoted delta is actually really low since an optimised run will have SMN making tremendous use of alignment windows.

Just because your group or you don't see people making use of these things to greatest effect does not mean that they aren't nor shouldn't be factored in.

I will never disparage the significance of raise. But do not downplay what else is there.