Thread: Summoner is doing too much in 5.10

Originally Posted by Rika007

That's like stating that SE doesn't in anyway listen to feedback at all, when the devs themselves state to leave all feedback here on the OF. And as changes so far in 5.X to Monk, Ninja, Bard, Summoner and Samurai proves, long thread's like this ABSOLUTELY have an effect on the devs.

Where did they say that?

I mean, you say that, but in the tank forums people have been asking for changes for many things for months...and yet nothing but silence from SE. Even something as innocent as changing back the GNB sound effects to what they were on release, that even had a straw poll with overwhelming support. Did we see it even mentioned in the 5.1 live letter? Let alone the patch notes themselves? Of course not.

SE looks at data 99% of the time, only making changes if there is a universal outrage about something on the forums, otherwise this is just a place for discussion, not feedback.

Originally Posted by lulunami

rDPS on FFlogs over the entire tier for E4S (Titan) at the 99th percentile. BLM, MNK, SAM are still higher than SMN in a movement heavy fight.

These charts affirm my belief that the state of the game now is objectively more balanced than it was at the start of the expansion (of course, it's also far from perfect). As long as we're looking at rdps (raid dps), having as many jobs as possible clustered together in output is a good thing. Rdps does not differentiate between a mega buffer like dancer or a pure dps like black mage, and in an ideal world, every single job would have roughly equivalent rdps. If all jobs in the game were clustered in that space between black mage and ninja, that would be a spread of no more than ~5% between the highest and lowest, which I'd consider a fantastic result.

In fact, as long as it's about rdps, there would be no issue if the positions of, for example, black mage and ninja were reversed on that chart. Ask yourself, is there any reason black mage and samurai need to be on top for rdps? That's an outdated and biased holdover from the time we only looked at raw dps, where of course jobs like that were on top in those metrics. We might've gotten used to seeing that, but with rdps it's anyone's game. It's a much more holistic metric, and like I said, as long as we're looking at a 5% spread at most, I'm satisfied with the result whoever is the lucky winner.

So clearly there's work that still needs to be done. As you can see, summoner (and ninja during the prior mini-patch) have been adjusted to conform with the pack. Assuming the data in the chart is conclusive, red mage could stand to receive a little more help, and all three ranged jobs need a serious helping hand. If you think me joking about reparations wasn't funny, what do you consider the reversal of fortunes jobs like blm and the ranged are showing now? Relative to past expansions. Things like that don't happen out of nowhere, no one has gotten as fat off the spoils of war as blm right now.

Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

They told us SMN would get a big increase in damage. You can't compare the degree of difficulty between RDM and SMN or even MCH so its justified according to SE. Of course they will make adjustments but this thread is really just a rant. This thread is not going to sway SE one bit as they will make adjustments based on their data. The changes will come so people just need to chill.

This thread isn't a rant. I would know given that I started it.

SE have shown that they do take the greater state of things into account, even things posted on the English language forums and not just the Japanese side. Many things here they have paid attention to, fixed and addressed. For feedback oh did they listen across all regions. For SMN every single abuse case I listed before 5.0 release, even the really obscure ones, were made impossible on Shadowbringers release. Every Summoner bug gets addressed quickly after being reported, to the point of the servers being brought down for a hotfix. Name one job more bug-ridden over the history of the game.

You're still talking as if you understand the nature of things when truly you do not. As per usual, your posts in this thread and elsewhere contribute nothing of value.

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Where did they say that?

They mention it often during Sampos, PLLs, anniversary streams, interviews and talks over at Fanfests. The OFs absolutely are their go-to for our feedback. Even if I do believe that coverage of the non-JP forums is to be desired at times.

Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Buffing BLM isn't necessarily the answer. Constantly buffing jobs leads to power creep which is not desirable either. Nerfs don't feel good but they're just as important as buffs in balancing.

especially as buffing blm probably would lead to cries of "buff samurai" which would follow "buff every other melee, samurai is too strong" all of that while still ignoring the seriously sad state of the physical ranged role as a whole.