Revelations from Patch 5.1

[Alleo]

Its just so strange to me because tempered and people afflicted by Light behave so different.

In what stage of tempering are those that have not turned into sin eaters yet and can still think but get sicker and sicker over time? In Eorzea you are either tempered or you are not. Sometimes you get too much and turn into a monster but anyone that is tempered normally will lose their sense of self. Right now we dont know about any kind of stage before that which would fit the stage of people not turning into sin eaters.

If you are tempered you will follow the one that tempered you but at the same time can act and move just like you once did. Sometimes they break your mind too much (like the woman in the Amalja quests) and sometimes you are turned into a monster. But every one that just got tempered will lose their free will. There are no stages between that.

Yet with sin eaters there are. We have those that got only a bit hurt and under the Light would have still turned after time but that now will only need some medicine to get better. The light itself at the same time only turned those that got directly infused with it. People living under it the normal way have no problems as long as there are other elements in the air too. (Since the empy is dangerous) While if you are near the source of tempering you will turn with enough time too. So if you stick someone under Light they wont change until they get hit by a higher sin eater (since the low ones arent enough), but if you stick someone near the aether of Leviathan he will turn over time even without an injury and even with normal aether still in the air.

Then you have those that have a much higher amount of Light in them that stops them from moving and later will even stop them from communicating or reacting at all. This is the last stage before they turn and its the only stage were they seemingly can react to the calls of higher sin eaters. (Halric went out to met that one) But even that stage is nowhere near the same as tempered ones. They are barely able to even move their body, their minds have shut down. This is nothing like the tempered soldiers that fit into society and that managed to smuggle in enough crystals to summong a primal.

And then when they turn into sin eaters they turn into even more mindless slaves. Only these seem similar to those that turned into monster by too much tempering. But overall for me they dont share much similiarities in their behavior at all. Tempering does not slow down their aether. They can move like they always did, they can still plan and execude actions as before but this time in the name of their "god/master". Look at the Ascians and then compare them to those that got afflicted with Light.

The only one that acts similiar to Halric is Ga Bu. And there we dont even know for sure if he was even tempered. Many of the others are not in a catatonic state at all and even those who got their mind broken still can talk, they are just a bit crazy.

To be honest, I have a hard time believing we're only finding this out about people who are slowly transforming into Sin Eaters now. The 1st Shard has been Flooded With Light for an entire century and people have presumably been transforming into Sin Eaters for just as long. And you're telling me that in all that time, mages didn't notice that hey... all these people transforming into Sin Eaters have really stagnant aether and maybe we should experiment with making their aether less stagnant?

I agree with most of your post but I believe they would not be able to find a solution in the long time since the flood because the light was always there and I believe they said that it now can only be changed because they are not under that constant Light anymore. Heck the Nu Mo even said that they would be able to heal themselves with enough time too but again doesnt this kinda show that tempering and light affliction is something different?

Yes a lot of tempered are killed but we have one group of people that got tempered a long time ago and are not (as far as we know) under constant primal influence either. (As in constant rain of that aether like with the Light on the first) The ascians are all still tempered even after that long time. Emet Selch himself was living many lives among the mortals in which he probably was even more out of the influence from Zodiark who is not even active right now. Yet he does not seem to be less tempered at all. Heck just one live as a mortal should have cured him from most of it because they did talk that it would probably happen in normal lifetime. Also they are the perfect group to show that they are vastly different to sin eaters and those afflicted by Light.

[LineageRazor]

If you are tempered you will follow the one that tempered you but at the same time can act and move just like you once did. Sometimes they break your mind too much (like the woman in the Amalja quests) and sometimes you are turned into a monster. But every one that just got tempered will lose their free will. There are no stages between that.

Actually, no - this example (Loon Gah's mother) IS one of several pieces of evidence that there are degrees of tempering, not just tempered/non-tempered. It's explicitly stated in the Beast Tribe quest that she was demented due to being OVER-tempered, exposed again and again. It wasn't just a case of tempering affecting different people in different ways. You can be tempered a little, or tempered a lot, and being tempered a lot can affect your mind (as with the woman) or your body (as with the pirates in Sastasha (Hard)), or, presumably, both.

If this is the case, then Sin Eaters could be similar to extreme tempering, twisting the body and mind both. It may still be a different phenomenon than tempering, but could still be close enough for the Scions to make the logical leaps they're making.

[ObsidianFire]

Actually, no - this example (Loon Gah's mother) IS one of several pieces of evidence that there are degrees of tempering, not just tempered/non-tempered. It's explicitly stated in the Beast Tribe quest that she was demented due to being OVER-tempered, exposed again and again. It wasn't just a case of tempering affecting different people in different ways. You can be tempered a little, or tempered a lot, and being tempered a lot can affect your mind (as with the woman) or your body (as with the pirates in Sastasha (Hard)), or, presumably, both.

Both me and Alleo have said there are degrees of being Tempered. However, there is not degrees between not being Tempered and being Tempered. Being Tempered a little is still being Tempered and it always effects your mind.

And so far, it has always been as simple as Tempered/Not Tempered. The Ascians have been Tempered longer then anyone else and they are extremely rational. They are also obviously under Zodiark's Thrall even though they have in-character motivations and desires to do what Zoidark wants them to do. Which is the same thing any other Primal wants their Tempered to do: keep them in the physical realm and supply them with aether.

Where we don't see a comparison between the Tempered and Sin Eaters is that there is a degrees of how close to being a Sin Eater a being is. And we don't see that with Tempering ever.

[Alleo]

Actually, no - this example (Loon Gah's mother) IS one of several pieces of evidence that there are degrees of tempering, not just tempered/non-tempered. It's explicitly stated in the Beast Tribe quest that she was demented due to being OVER-tempered, exposed again and again. It wasn't just a case of tempering affecting different people in different ways. You can be tempered a little, or tempered a lot, and being tempered a lot can affect your mind (as with the woman) or your body (as with the pirates in Sastasha (Hard)), or, presumably, both.

If this is the case, then Sin Eaters could be similar to extreme tempering, twisting the body and mind both. It may still be a different phenomenon than tempering, but could still be close enough for the Scions to make the logical leaps they're making.

Yes she is overtempered but at the same time have we ever seen a tempered that is still of his own mind but barely able to move? With stages I meant like the sin eater ones: At early stages until nearly the end you are yourself just with differences between movement and activity of your mind. Halric was even able to remember stuff that happened while he was catatonic. These people seemingly only completely lose their free will when they turn. Someone being tempered has no such stage. In all the clear cases we have right now people who are tempered have at least lost their free will. There is nothing ingame right now that shows us someone that got tempered but is still himself. Ga Bu is strange but we simply dont know whats up with him. He could be tempered but at the same time so catatonic that even Titan does not go through him and healing his mind could then show that tempering full front. Or maybe he got not tempered at all and is just in pure shock.

In the end if that truly works for tempered beings then couldnt we just go with it to Elidibus and free him? Wouldnt that be a bit easy?

Edit: Another example from our own view: We ourselves had gotten too much light in us. We did not have the stages some of the others had (at least at the beginning and maybe also thanks to the blessing) but at the end we were barely able to move straight and our vision got worse. Yet until the end we remained with our own mind. Only after everything turned white we probably would have lost that and turned into a mindless beast. So if that is like tempering than "tempering" with light seemingly only starts with changing into a sin eater. Because before that people are able to keep a sense of self.

(Which makes me wonder...is that what everyone sees when they turn? Themselves locked up in pure white? Tesleen also had her view turn white. We also know that our soul would have broken so does that happen to people that turn too?)