Revelations from Patch 5.1

[Kobalos]

MSQ thoughts

Wowee what a ride - I really like playing as Estinien even if he was OP. and that badass LB. The fight was creepy, could not help but feel sorry for the poor chap in that machine. proves that the empire will stop at nothing to achieve their goals even if it means experimenting on their own people.

As for Zenos a lot of folks saying hes gunna eat Zodiark - I highly doubt this is going to happen. Zenos has a one track mind and will go for the ultimate hunt and try to fuse with Zodiark like he did with shinryu but I predict in doing so Zodiark will consume him or rend his soul a sunder.

Emet already told us that Zodiark was one of the most powerful and oldest of primals along side Hydaelyn and I highly doubt the father of chaos is going to allow itself to become a Zenos snack more like the other way round...

[KageTokage]

On the subject of Zenos...

With how Ascian-like he is already, it would be hilariously ironic if it went full circle and he ended up just getting tempered by Zodiark after believing he could actually manipulate a primal of his magnitude (They'd have to make up a really, really good explanation for me to actually accept him being strong enough to overtake even a weakened Zodiark with an artificial Echo).

It would certainly even the playing field for the Ascians now that Elidibus is the only remaining overlord and I'd really like for one of Zenos' schemes blow up in his face for once.

[Mieck]

By the way folks, in case anyone missed it, there is a new quest in Mor Dhona after the conclusion of the MSQ

[EdwinLi]

So anyone else want to talk about how now we have a potential...

Cure for Primal Tempering

...with this MSQ?

If this is the case then imaging what may happen if this does succeed and what it may mean for Elidibus since we know he is under Zodiark's Tempering and what his personality maybe without its influence.

[Crushnight]

Lots to talk about it seems:

MSQ:

Civil war in Garlemald and even more horrific experiments, wonder if the alliance will press forward for fear a rogue legion may do something drastic or let it play out either option is going to look poorly to the provinces the empire has left. As for the mysterious hodded figure placing bets on Aulus from the Ala Mhigo dungeon since Zenos recognizes the soul and SB for 4.0 was surprisingly Ascien free or was it? :P

The extra P'hiliman quest after was sweet.

Eulmore seems it is being set up to help move the 1st back to stability and i'd like that Mr Chai did alot of it unprovoked came a long way from needing an artist.

Humor has been good between the characters.

Though there is something that bothered me, the scions give up the idea of white auracite citing why yet when we go and inform Krile and Tataru they are gungho about Urianger's white auracite plan. Left me very confused.

What i can see happening in the future:

Eulmore will play more roles as an airship landing is there yet you cannot access it so either we have a flying battle ahead or hard to reach areas to go to needing Eulmore's fleet.
Garlemald will nigh destroy itself until a crown is placed on someone's head or the Alliance intervenes forcing them to stop.
The Night's Blessed will play a pivitol part next time due to the 'soulstone' reference which the gemstones would probably be the closet things to (may also get an answer to why the water pricked our character and Ryne).

[DaBigDorf]

One thought on the MSQ I have not seen brought up:

But then again the creep who sold Yotsuyu got off scot-free too, so welp

You mean her father? Didn't she kill him?

1234567890

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

In light of new developments,

I wonder if the present situation with Zenos means that Fordola is also an Ascian.

You mean her father? Didn't she kill him?

1234567890

No, Puksi is talking about the resistance member that put Yotsuyu into a brothel. The guy you talk to in 4.2. He's reassigned to another post by Gosetsu and never mentioned again, as I recall.

[Puksi]

You mean her father? Didn't she kill him?

1234567890

I have more than 10 characters right here!

Her former "master" Jifuya, from the quest Elation And Trepidation. He bought her off her adoptive father, and in turn he sold her off to the clientele of his brothel. So I guess both sold her, and she did kill her father, but Jifuya? He is in the Doman Liberation Front, and he was politely (and very non-judgmentally) given a new post when he revealed his past (and how he joined not for the greater good, but simply to escape her wrath when she became viceroy).

Would her adoptive parents have met any sort of punishment for what they did to her if they had lived? I'm not so sure.

It just feels extra skeevy to gloss over what the former mayor allowed Emet-Selch to do to his wife and child, I guess, because Yotsuyu was afforded some sympathy by the narrative, but Vauthry never is? His mother was given no chance to refuse, they decided everything for her while she stood there looking frightened, and it doomed him before he was even born. We know the truth, we're the heroic and trusted Warrior Of Darkness, and we just stand there silent every time someone waxes on how horrible he was, even when Wrenden went on how Eulmore was for THE PEOPLE when his dad was in charge. I mean the stoic silent hero is a running gag at this point but come on, Vauthry's father literally schemed to "rule the world" lmao.

[ShadowMeowth]

I have more than 10 characters right here!

Her former "master" Jifuya, from the quest Elation And Trepidation. He bought her off her adoptive father, and in turn he sold her off to the clientele of his brothel. So I guess both sold her, and she did kill her father, but Jifuya? He is in the Doman Liberation Front, and he was politely (and very non-judgmentally) given a new post when he revealed his past (and how he joined not for the greater good, but simply to escape her wrath when she became viceroy).

Would her adoptive parents have met any sort of punishment for what they did to her if they had lived? I'm not so sure.

It just feels extra skeevy to gloss over what the former mayor allowed Emet-Selch to do to his wife and child, I guess, because Yotsuyu was afforded some sympathy by the narrative, but Vauthry never is? His mother was given no chance to refuse, they decided everything for her while she stood there looking frightened, and it doomed him before he was even born. We know the truth, we're the heroic and trusted Warrior Of Darkness, and we just stand there silent every time someone waxes on how horrible he was, even when Wrenden went on how Eulmore was for THE PEOPLE when his dad was in charge. I mean the stoic silent hero is a running gag at this point but come on, Vauthry's father literally schemed to "rule the world" lmao.

Uhuhuhuh ~

I agree that there is some sympathy towards Vauthry that is rather glossed over: he is Innocence because he truly believes himself innocent, since he has been told the moment he was born that he was a god-like being that could not be wrong. Vauthry is pretty much a construct, and the responsibility lies in his father's choice and education. Emet's suggestion sounds wicked and cruel but in his eyes he probably thought that while ensuring Light's hold onto the First he would also give the people some reprieve from the sin eaters; after the Lakeland duty, Emet laments that he did not imagine Vauthry capable of unleashing his army for anything, so I would say he merely left the decision to Vauthry's father. He does mention that most of the times all he does is sowing the seeds of chaos and it is man who tends them, and this is an example.

All the discussion about those who got away after doing heinous deeds makes me think of the sin eaters and the whole "forgiveness" theme. Sin eaters kill, and you transform into a "Forgiven Whatever" and that is it. What is the purpose, then? The theme is brought up again with Cylva's sidequest and how she pleads to be killed for her sins, and you refuse arguing that the living have no use for her death. This is actually something that I have said many times: I loathe the Redemption Equals Death trope. What I would like to see is keeping the memories and still forging a new life. Aye, I am eyeing Hades here, I regret nothing. I am convinced he is not yet off the picture.

[Puksi]

Uhuhuhuh ~

I agree that there is some sympathy towards Vauthry that is rather glossed over: he is Innocence because he truly believes himself innocent, since he has been told the moment he was born that he was a god-like being that could not be wrong. Vauthry is pretty much a construct, and the responsibility lies in his father's choice and education. Emet's suggestion sounds wicked and cruel but in his eyes he probably thought that while ensuring Light's hold onto the First he would also give the people some reprieve from the sin eaters; after the Lakeland duty, Emet laments that he did not imagine Vauthry capable of unleashing his army for anything, so I would say he merely left the decision to Vauthry's father. He does mention that most of the times all he does is sowing the seeds of chaos and it is man who tends them, and this is an example.

All the discussion about those who got away after doing heinous deeds makes me think of the sin eaters and the whole "forgiveness" theme. Sin eaters kill, and you transform into a "Forgiven Whatever" and that is it. What is the purpose, then? The theme is brought up again with Cylva's sidequest and how she pleads to be killed for her sins, and you refuse arguing that the living have no use for her death. This is actually something that I have said many times: I loathe the Redemption Equals Death trope. What I would like to see is keeping the memories and still forging a new life. Aye, I am eyeing Hades here, I regret nothing. I am convinced he is not yet off the picture.

It's the final countdown!

Emet-Selch wasn't interested in granting a reprieve to anyone, though? The Ascians had to slow the tilt of Light on the First, it was going too fast. Vauthry was created as a stopgap to prevent that, not to do anyone any favors. Emet-Selch's suggestion sounded wicked and cruel because it was? There is no positive way to spin what he did there. :s He talked over a frightened woman about using her as a vessel to corrupt her unborn baby so his father could rule the world. And when her HUSBAND consented, he did it to her, regardless of her obvious fear. ("Left the decision to Vauthry's father"? How about his mother, lmao, she's people too, and it's sort of her body) That is skeevy for both Emet-Selch AND the former mayor. (Not to mention the whole bit that he doesn't see any of us as "really alive".)

It seems disingenous of Emet-Selch to "sow the seeds of chaos" and then blame humanity for the result in general, particularly in Vauthry's case. Emet-Selch stacked that deck. Sin Eaters corrupt. Take Titania for instance, the Lightwarden changed them into a twisted mockery of the benevolent ruler they were said to be. Tesleen was caring and selfless but once corrupted, she was unable to be anything other than a monster. Vauthry would be no exception. He never had a chance to act of his own free will. Everything he did was through the lens of a Lightwarden, apparently the strongest one, that was changing him from birth. (The "half Sin Eater" bit seemed a lie on his father's part, you can't be half anything when you were already a whole Hume infant in the womb. Even Y'shtola remarked the Warden "took control" of Vauthry, implying they were two separate entities.) I would argue he was "Innocence" because the real him, the one free of the Lightwarden, never had a chance to do anything in life. He was a prisoner from birth.

I'd be all for Vauthry keeping memories and living to have his own life. He and his mother were casualties of the Ascians' shenanigans. They would deserve that. But since that is not possible, I'd settle for just being able once to say "hey, guys, this isn't how it was at all". As it stands, there IS no sympathy for what happened there, for him. We let the lie perpetuate that he was evil by choice, and not like every other character corrupted by a Sin Eater, trapped in a body he no longer truly controlled.