No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[Lambdafish]

Did I not spell it right? I injured my wrist about a decade ago, and it still flares up from time to time, usually after having to strain myself to keep a tank alive that insists on big pulls and/or won't use their defensive skills.

I'll try my best not to sound like an ass, but that's not the communities problem, that's your problem. If you don't want large pulls, it's not difficult to say "hey guys, I have a wrist injury, would you mind doing smaller pull, I'd much appreciate it". Having a vendetta against big pulls just puts you in the wrong, having communication in the run is the best way to solve all situations.

[Doozer]

I'll try my best not to sound like an ass, but that's not the communities problem, that's your problem. If you don't want large pulls, it's not difficult to say "hey guys, I have a wrist injury, would you mind doing smaller pull, I'd much appreciate it". Having a vendetta against big pulls just puts you in the wrong, having communication in the run is the best way to solve all situations.

Okay, but let me turn that around on you -- Why is it the community's problem when someone wants to go fast? If you want large pulls, it's not difficult to ask, "Hey guys, can I do large pulls? I'd much appreciate it". Having a vendetta against small pulls just puts you in the wrong, having communication in the run is the best way to solve all situations.

Only once in all the time I've played has anyone ever even said they were doing large pulls. No one has asked me if I wanted to. Why do I have to ask them not to, and not the other way around? Why is it okay to assume that one way of playing is the default, and that no one should even ask if that's what everyone wants to do?

[Lersayil]

Okay, but let me turn that around on you -- Why is it the community's problem when someone wants to go fast? If you want large pulls, it's not difficult to ask, "Hey guys, can I do large pulls? I'd much appreciate it". Having a vendetta against small pulls just puts you in the wrong, having communication in the run is the best way to solve all situations.

Only once in all the time I've played has anyone ever even said they were doing large pulls. No one has asked me if I wanted to. Why do I have to ask them not to, and not the other way around? Why is it okay to assume that one way of playing is the default, and that no one should even ask if that's what everyone wants to do?

Because its the widely accepted default. Its the optimal way to complete a dungeon and not exactly hard with proper gear and average skill levels. Unless there is a glaring reason to assume otherwise (noticably low item levels for instance), its what people expect and usually prefer.

If you have special circumstances that you cannot work around, and throw it out in chat, requesting smaller pulls as a healer or tank, I rarely see anyone argue.

EDIT: also, complementary acknowledgement that the OP is baiting.

[Jybril]

Okay, but let me turn that around on you -- Why is it the community's problem when someone wants to go fast? If you want large pulls, it's not difficult to ask, "Hey guys, can I do large pulls? I'd much appreciate it". Having a vendetta against small pulls just puts you in the wrong, having communication in the run is the best way to solve all situations.

Only once in all the time I've played has anyone ever even said they were doing large pulls. No one has asked me if I wanted to. Why do I have to ask them not to, and not the other way around? Why is it okay to assume that one way of playing is the default, and that no one should even ask if that's what everyone wants to do?

The other day my co-heal in Copied told us all she had a hand injury recently and was sorry in advance.
She still did really good but I was grateful that she told me, so I can put a bit extra in my heals and
I even Rescued her once and got a thank you from it.

Thing is, people will not know if you have an issue if you don't communicate.
So speak up! Large pulls have been a thing for many years. Sorry you have the injury though.
You could also try being a WHM since it's easier to manage things with them.

[Lambdafish]

Only once in all the time I've played has anyone ever even said they were doing large pulls. No one has asked me if I wanted to. Why do I have to ask them not to, and not the other way around? Why is it okay to assume that one way of playing is the default, and that no one should even ask if that's what everyone wants to do?

Because I'm the tank and I control the pace of the run. That is the role's right by definition. If you were to pull small and someone else pulls more mobs in, that person is in the wrong because you have chosen to pull within your comfort zone. It's been that way since the beginning of ARR.

One thing I notice about the big pull debate is that people seem extremely afraid of wipes. If a tank pulls too much and a wipe happens, that is the tank's fault, and we adjust accordingly, there's nothing wrong with that and it very rarely happens because big pulls are so easy.

[Kanitezz]

If a tank pulls too much and a wipe happens, that is the tank's fault, and we adjust accordingly, there's nothing wrong with that and it very rarely happens because big pulls are so easy.

Sometimes as a healer it's more like... Tank doesn't use CDs, stands in aoes, doesn't stop tank busters, all that stuff. Then it's stuff like 'WTF are you doing healer'. In my experience you have to be lucky for the tank to accept it as their fault when it actually is their fault.

While it's somewhat of an unspoken code that the tank controls the pace of the run, I don't think its a good mentality for them to rally behind because it can feed certain people's egos too much. And I think this can help nurture the 'If ya cant keep up, you're straight outta luck' mindset.

[Shurrikhan]

Sometimes as a healer it's more like... Tank doesn't use CDs, stands in aoes, doesn't stop tank busters, all that stuff. Then it's stuff like 'WTF are you doing healer'. In my experience you have to be lucky for the tank to accept it as their fault when it actually is their fault.

Most frequent one of late for me is the tank full pulling and then getting the d/c symbol for a few seconds at a time and then getting snarky with for "wasting" a Benediction after my Tetra just did nothing until they left their lag spike, so I had to Bene earlier than I would like rather than just waiting in hope that my earlier heals would eventually go through...
That, or full-pull tanks who refuse to sprint, get pulled off of by dps ramping up for the full gather, going back rather than trusting them to deposit the mobs, and depleting future CDs before we ever even hit the AoE spam...

[Kanitezz]

That, or full-pull tanks who refuse to sprint, get pulled off of by dps ramping up for the full gather, going back rather than trusting them to deposit the mobs, and depleting future CDs before we ever even hit the AoE spam...

Big yes to these too. I've actually started sprinting myself a while back when I tank or heal. I think you were one of the ones that opened my eyes to the effectiveness and helped me to start giving a damn. I could be wrong. But I REALLY have a problem with tanks popping EVERY freakin cooldown before they even start getting hit! My heart almost stops! Like what the hell are we going to do for the rest of the pull????

[Shurrikhan]

Big yes to these too. I've actually started sprinting myself a while back when I tank or heal. I think you were one of the ones that opened my eyes to the effectiveness and helped me to start giving a damn. I could be wrong. But I REALLY have a problem with tanks popping EVERY freakin cooldown before they even start getting hit! My heart almost stops! Like what the hell are we going to do for the rest of the pull????

Might have been. I tend to throw out the reminder that "Sprint is mitigation, especially if you take off immediately after tagging the mobs once (which is usually plenty), and its duration is doubled if you use it *before* entering combat" an awful lot, once I see someone forgetting to sprint. I think I've managed to retrain maybe a dozen or so tanks over the last year or so?

[Lambdafish]

Sometimes as a healer it's more like... Tank doesn't use CDs, stands in aoes, doesn't stop tank busters, all that stuff. Then it's stuff like 'WTF are you doing healer'. In my experience you have to be lucky for the tank to accept it as their fault when it actually is their fault.

While it's somewhat of an unspoken code that the tank controls the pace of the run, I don't think its a good mentality for them to rally behind because it can feed certain people's egos too much. And I think this can help nurture the 'If ya cant keep up, you're straight outta luck' mindset.

It's not something that is rallied behind, it's a matter of fact inherent in the game design. The tank pulls, therefore the tank can choose to pull one pack or multiple. Having said that, just because a tank pulls large packs doesn't mean that the tank is good. Bad players exist and are a completely separate argument from the "big pulls should be the standard" argument. You should be watching the tank, you should know when they are playing badly, and if they call you out, call them out back, it's not the tank you need to convince, its the other DPS who share the vote kick with you.

FYI, bad players rarely accept fault in DF, whether they are tanks, DPS, or healers.