No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I don't see the harm in grabbing two, or maybe three, packs of enemies if the party can keep up. I'm not going to grab 20 monsters at once, but I definitely wouldn't mind having people burn their AOE abilities on more than two or three enemies at a time.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

Okay, first of all, it is best for the tank to pull as many mobs as she and her healer are comfortable with. You as a damage dealer should focus on AoE attacks when there are three or more mobs. It is more efficient than attacking one enemy at a time.

If you as a tank feel comfortable in only pulling one group of mobs at a time, that's fine with me. BUT, you should strive to pull more.

Ask your healer how many mobs they are comfortable with you pulling. The amount of damage the healer can contribute is secondary to the amount of damage they can heal.

How about you respect the time of your party members? Why queue if you're not going to?

How about people respecting that not everyone is up to a blitz pace run? Eating multiple wipes takes more time than moving at a reasonable speed for all the members. Players should be willing to compromise.

I'll be upfront, I like these topics for the popcorn discussions.


I think that if the party is okay with doing big pulls, they should be done/possible for the party.

On the other hand, if someone is not comfortable with doing the big pulls, then they shouldn't be happening.
The key here : communication.


My personal opinion : I dislike the big pulls depending on the class I am playing. There's moment I enjoy nuking down entire packs with the AoE my class gives me, but there's days I simply don't feel like rushing through a dungeon and just want to take it easy.

I like these popcorn discussions too!

[Bright-Flower]

I don't think that the tank should do big pulls if the healer or group aren't up for it. But it is faster to have everything being aoed at once.

[Lambdafish]

I don't see the harm in grabbing two, or maybe three, packs of enemies if the party can keep up. I'm not going to grab 20 monsters at once, but I definitely wouldn't mind having people burn their AOE abilities on more than two or three enemies at a time.

It's impossible to do more than that in the shadowbringers dungeons as far as im aware

[tinythinker]

Did someone already post a "I like big pulls and I cannot lie" meme in this thread and I missed it?

[Iscah]

not all dps have aoes at that level right and tank alone will melt enemies now in low level dungeons.

That's what I meant. It's an exception to the "larger pulls go faster" because the DPSes aren't killing the pack any faster if they can only attack one enemy at a time. It just means the healer has to spam heals instead of contributing to DPS - and the tank being an alt in Lv15 armour was hardly helping things.

[Rasikko]

Instant casts should be saved for emergencies when they're actually needed, not wasted over misunderstood priority or outright laziness.

I don't know how you can hold them for such situations.. bosses, even certain pulls, mobs, pretty much force you to use them 71+. I learned this the hard way on my first go in Holminster Switch. I mean I WISH they could be used like that, because I feel right now they are just crutches, but there is really no way to reliably to keep things stable with slow as molasses cure 2, and underpowered Cure 1.

[Noitems]

There's another thread talking about similar issues to this, but until SE can actually change the core idea of WHY we do big mob pulls it's gonna stay the same.

My idea would be to have dungeons be more varied in hazards and force the players to plan ahead before pulling wall to wall. I used Temple of the Fist in an example of my last thread but why not go past that and look at a dungeon like Xelphatol.

In that dungeon the first pull to the bridge has rocks that constantly fall down, one blocks the path forcing you to go around it and smaller aoe rocks fall giving you a vul up debuff if you get hit by them (also giving it to the mobs too). With more mobs on the screen and all of the aoes going off it makes things more chaotic, but I'd also suggest in that case to have a rockslide fall down if you get close to a wall forcing you to be enclosed with all of the mob and dungeon aoes.

This in turn would cause tanks to play more beneficially and give a higher risk and reward for taking up the big pulls, instead of our current state of risk being a tank forgetting to pop a cd or a healer not getting a heal in time. Player controlled aspects are big but when everyone has figured out the optimal way of doing a dungeon it becomes boring without something to spice it up.

We are getting there with Dungeons like Amaurot offering big aoes down the line and smaller ones throughout those pulls, but we need more to at least challenge the idea of big pulls, and that in turn keeping tanks/heals busier then just handling a mob.

[Fynlar]

When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes,

ahahahahahahahaha

[RyuSaarva]

That's what I meant. It's an exception to the "larger pulls go faster" because the DPSes aren't killing the pack any faster if they can only attack one enemy at a time. It just means the healer has to spam heals instead of contributing to DPS - and the tank being an alt in Lv15 armour was hardly helping things.

but you forgot that tanks do have infinite aoe now, and they do more damage and take less damage this expansion.