Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[Shurrikhan]

If we're doing a tank patch, I"d like to chime in a couple additions.

1. Blocking and Parrying are not overwritten by critical hits.
2. SomethingsomethingDelirium

3. Excess chance is converted to proportionately increased effect. (A 120% chance of a +50% damage crit would instead become a 100% chance of a +60% crit; yes, this also helps skills like Shelltron.)
4. Warrior gauge matters again.

[whiskeybravo]

But critical hits are so spicy

And in the abstract, scoring a critical assumes you penetrated the targets defenses in some capacity, so it makes sense that they're above block/parry. If you block or parry what would've otherwise been a critical attack, it's no longer critical but has been defensed.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

But critical hits are so spicy

And in the abstract, scoring a critical assumes you penetrated the targets defenses in some capacity, so it makes sense that they're above block/parry. If you block or parry what would've otherwise been a critical attack, it's no longer critical but has been defensed.

By that logic then so should standard damage reduction skills and HP Shields be null and void for critical damage.

[whiskeybravo]

By that logic then so should standard damage reduction skills and HP Shields be null and void for critical damage.

Well, there's a reason I framed it as "in some capacity", since I assume what's mainly being discussed is limited mostly to incoming critical auto-attacks and not the entire range of possible combat abilities/tactics.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Well, there's a reason I framed it as "in some capacity", since I assume what's mainly being discussed is limited to incoming critical auto-attacks and not the entire range of possible abilities/tactics.

ah I missed the "in some capacity" but the argument is still valid nonetheless, like there is another thread that suggest baking in PLD's Awareness that was added to the tank role actions in SB, the subsequently removed this expansion, and baking it into Sheltron, then you could keep crit before block and parry, in the normal course of things, but right now PLD is the only tank that can't deal with crits with it's "on-demand" CD. So either the game checks for Block and Parry before Crit, or they adjust Sheltron.

[whiskeybravo]

ah I missed the "in some capacity" but the argument is still valid nonetheless, like there is another thread that suggest baking in PLD's Awareness that was added to the tank role actions in SB, the subsequently removed this expansion, and baking it into Sheltron, then you could keep crit before block and parry, in the normal course of things, but right now PLD is the only tank that can't deal with crits with it's "on-demand" CD. So either the game checks for Block and Parry before Crit, or they adjust Sheltron.

I suppose it's a valid perspective relative to Sheltron being a block-based ability, but as far as I'm aware there aren't any tankbusters that can crit in current content so it's mostly irrelevant. Using Sheltron to block auto-attacks is about as useless as mitigating autos with any other similar ability. If it boils down to dungeon content you have to be content that the 4 tanks each have their own plus/minus just as they do within raiding content, else you simply end up demanding that every job has counter-ability equal to the others. Does DRK then need the same caveat since a critical attack will consume more of it's TBN shield than a normal attack would've? Why does PLD need a mitigation buff more than GNB? Why do either of them need mitigation buffs when they already excel in offense compared to DRK and WAR? There's nothing wrong with allowing critical attacks to help balance differentiation.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I suppose it's a valid perspective relative to Sheltron being a block-based ability, but as far as I'm aware there aren't any tankbusters that can crit in current content so it's mostly irrelevant. Using Sheltron to block auto-attacks is about as useless as mitigating autos with any other similar ability. If it boils down to dungeon content you have to be content that the 4 tanks each have their own plus/minus just as they do within raiding content, else you simply end up demanding that every job has counter-ability equal to the others. Does DRK then need the same caveat since a critical attack will consume more of it's TBN shield than a normal attack would've? Why does PLD need a mitigation buff more than GNB? Why do either of them need mitigation buffs when they already excel in offense compared to DRK and WAR? There's nothing wrong with allowing critical attacks to help balance differentiation.

It is mostly autos in savage and ultimate content I refer to and, no there isn't any critical hit buster or high crit chance buster in the current expansion, but that doesn't mean it's outside the realm of possiblities.

I don't speak of 4 man content basically since it's braindead all tanks have enough mitigation for it.

I mean all tanks can mitigate Critical hits with every single one of their cooldowns except PLD that cannot as I've already stated, and although Camoflague does have a parry element built in, it's still mitigating critical damage nonetheless, before that is used as a counter example.

I wouldn't disregard crit auto attacks in savage and ultimates either, they can kill if healers don't pay enough attention, and if you can spare CDs on auto attacks you should, as it is good practice to do so, less damage recieved equals more healer damage dealt, so when you actively try to keep gauge from overcapping, only to take a crit, kinda feels like a waste.

[whiskeybravo]

It is mostly autos in savage and ultimate content I refer to and, no there isn't any critical hit buster or high crit chance buster in the current expansion, but that doesn't mean it's outside the realm of possiblities.

I don't speak of 4 man content basically since it's braindead all tanks have enough mitigation for it.

I mean all tanks can mitigate Critical hits with every single one of their cooldowns except PLD that cannot as I've already stated, and although Camoflague does have a parry element built in, it's still mitigating critical damage nonetheless, before that is used as a counter example.

I wouldn't disregard crit auto attacks in savage and ultimates either, they can kill if healers don't pay enough attention, and if you can spare CDs on auto attacks you should, as it is good practice to do so, less damage recieved equals more healer damage dealt, so when you actively try to keep gauge from overcapping, only to take a crit, kinda feels like a waste.

But you don't know when a critical auto is going to hit, even if you could "block" it there's no guarantee you're actually going to block at the same time a crit occurs, much less that one time it would prevent a death.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

But you don't know when a critical auto is going to hit, even if you could "block" it there's no guarantee you're actually going to block at the same time a crit occurs, much less that one time it would prevent a death.

Nah, of course you can never know when a crit auto is going to happen, but at the very least the benefit of Sheltron shouldn't be negated by a random critical auto from a boss is the main point I'm trying to make.

[aqskerorokero]

I am going drop this here, if NF can be used with and without a target, most of time ( always )the WAR will use it on himself and not the party member.

Clemency is on gcd, intervention does not benefit Pld self.

HOS has better effect used correctly on party member.

If NF can be self targeted, it has to have a downside. Longer cd maybe?