Reasonable buff to war

[Shurrikhan]

Holmgang is now at 8 seconds without any penalty, which makes it flat out more powerful than both Superbollide and Living Dead. They buffed Raw Intuition as well.

Yeah, I don't get it. At worst, Holmgang now has the same cost as Superbolide (full HP lost over duration), less cost than Living Dead (up to 2x full HP - 1), is still easier to work with than Living Dead and only slightly harder to work around than Superbolide (and only arguably so even then)... And yet it costs less recast time than either?

Raw Intuition requires less time to charge than Shelltron and comes at a lesser opportunity cost, if only due to NF being so much weaker than Intervention. Why does it now need the same duration as it and nearly that of the 25% weaker Heart of Stone?

...I would have been perfectly happy with IC being nerfed to 900 potency (or less, as necessary) but now gain damage from our excess Direct Hit and Critical Hit chance, rather than wasting it. That and some QoL changes to NF. At least then we wouldn't be disadvantaged by certain compositions and our RI-alternative would feel more attractive.

[shao32]

i wonder when they are going to buff heart of stone, 5% damage reduction less and just 1 sec more of duraction compared to raw it's not fair at all.

[Shurrikhan]

i wonder when they are going to buff heart of stone, 5% damage reduction less and just 1 sec more of duration compared to raw it's not fair at all.

I feel like NF is sort of our keystone or bottleneck issue here. Intervention equates to Shelltron mitigation off a single CD, which is allowing that skill to exploit the hell out of the both-tanks-take-damage-simultaneously fights. TBN is better on whichever tank has more HP without having too much percentile mitigation to pop it. HoS is faintly better on the OT than MT, just in that it at least duplicates the 150 shield potency of Brutal Shell (*soul-crushed chuckle*). And then there's IR vs. NF, which varies wildly and the latter of which really doesn't feel as smooth to use, especially in that your burst rarely lines up so well with their burst, or either of your burst with the periods where you'd need rapid health recovery.

Depending on what they do with NF, we may simply see HoS duration increased, maybe its laughable Brutal Shell heal doubled if not used on a target, and for future Brutal Shells to be affected (if the shield mechanic isn't outright moved over to Burst Strike instead, which would be far more flexible in its timing) instead of only the first, or we may see the self-effect split from the external effect and Aurora buffed to compensate (such as with a Clemency half-heal-also-to-self effect). Who knows?

[Satarn]

Yeah, I don't get it. At worst, Holmgang now has the same cost as Superbolide (full HP lost over duration), less cost than Living Dead (up to 2x full HP - 1), is still easier to work with than Living Dead and only slightly harder to work around than Superbolide (and only arguably so even then)... And yet it costs less recast time than either?

Well yeah, but before you couldn't use it for entire Stonecrusher that one time, so that naturally made the skill and entire job utterly worthless. Nobody cares about the recharge, that's never useful /s

Honestly tough, I would gladly take an extra 5% on Heart of Stone even if it came with some slight potency nerfs to GNB.

[BarretOblivion]

Well yeah, but before you couldn't use it for entire Stonecrusher that one time, so that naturally made the skill and entire job utterly worthless. Nobody cares about the recharge, that's never useful /s

Honestly tough, I would gladly take an extra 5% on Heart of Stone even if it came with some slight potency nerfs to GNB.

I mean... holmgang is really nice in Levi with a DRK. You never share/split any tankbusters with that comp.
Holmgang isn't bad once it gets the buff, but... the duration change makes it almost as useful to me as Living Dead outside of requiring an exceptional amount of healing. Heal a WAR enough for them to survive while thier self heal helps a bit is nice. But, making all damage 0 adds another layer that healers love. PLD? Don't even consider them apart of the fight for 10 secs which is great for catching up or just free damage. Superboilde? Throw a regen on them and dps/catch up like PLD while the GNB is likely to put thier own regen on themselves.

With DRK/WAR there is a bit of a 'emergency' because you have to have them at a safe HP number as the duration runs out (and the required healing for DRK to not die) all the while any heals you throw at them during the invuln can be nulled out by auto atacks or tankbusters like stonecrusher. Complete invuln of damage alows safe heals or ignoring heals in PLD's case.

[Capn_Goggles]

i wonder when they are going to buff heart of stone, 5% damage reduction less and just 1 sec more of duraction compared to raw it's not fair at all.

You can also use heart of stone on other people, which also carries the nice little bonus of giving them Brutal Shell as well; also, superbolide is much easier to work with since it adds invulnerability. Aside that, Gunbreaker is more focused on offense than defense, so it makes sense that the tank with the lowest offense would have a robust defensive suite.

[shao32]

Pretty much irrelevant, NF it's a strong OT skill, HoS it's just weaker compared to the rest for no reason + camouflage, i still consider HoS need a Buff on his MT side like if used on yourself you get the brutal Shell (non-stackeable) shield since you can't really have It on demand when you really need It appart of his laughable strength.

[millktea]

Complexity? Stance dancing? Did we play the same game? No one really stance ...

Yes, they did. Raid isnt everything. it doesnt matter if the MAX DPS is never swapping, the point is that it EXISTED.

It was "more complex" whether eye or some such was worth even putting up. without stance dancing, warrior lost a lot of it's complexity, REGARDLESS if you did not want to be in it for raid/max dps. it's other stance was still relevent/valid as equilibrium and unchained were tied to it, meaning you'd use both for the pull. with "defiance" gone, we can see how "empty" warrior actually is and it's lack of growth after it's 4.2 regression. War was mostly fine in 4.1, but due to player's lack of skill, this was changed. SE had two years to rework *that* rotation. they didnt. then, to be "clever", they took what was lost from the duality, and "pretended" that your new traits and skills were new things.

the complexity of the opener was the same 99% of the time. one of the ONLY few times where this EVER changed was suzaku ex (and uwu).

At the start of a trash pull in a dungeon, to be able to unchained + IR with a cyclone, trans between gcd into decimate absolutely made warrior more enjoyable. This is also true for a particular raid opener (non-nin) where you could unchained + eye + equilibrium + IB > trans into deliver FC. It's duality did have a small taste of convoluted quality, but that did not mean that the difficult was *that* high. the issue is that someone who doesn't know HOW to war, does too much damage.

By taking away Defiance's Inner Beast, Unchained, Cyclone enmity, eqilibrium heal/enmity, it loses a lot of it's toolkit and desirability . Warrior lost a detrimental amount of self-healing. equilibrium and tob arent enough, nascent is tied to a body and even then it is NOT ENOUGH. warrior could self heal at 70. this is gone at 80.

storm's eye was still problematic in SB. IR being only 10s with sks and ping dependency existed before ShB, it's just now it is excruciatingly obvious.

and war's dps in ShB IS bad as based on war's toolkit compared to the rest, it's dps is too low. you guys need to use your actual brain here. until the tanks have the EXACT same defensive toolkit as well as their DPS, they will never be balanced. PLD has a massive monopoly on raid mitigation. warrior has nowhere near that. SE legitimately made a pathetic attempt to try to make war ot valid, to play this bs game of "your tank doesnt matter", only it does matter. every major mechanic in raid hinders warrior. If they wanted to play this BS, then the tanks need to play exactly the same. EXACTLY.

dark needs to be fixed, but this isn't a dark thread. it's actually PLD that's to blame here, not war (and gunbreaker as well). we didn't need a new tank. we needed dark knight to be fixed. that meant at least to have LD adjusted and for it to be given a party mitigation CD.

[millktea]

.

That is incorrect. The tank damage forum is massive, and i've already dealt with you previously, Izsha, you don't have a strong understanding of warrior (or did you finally realize how bad storms eye and it having adjustments would actually make a difference?), so it makes sense that "fun/clunk" is your only rebuttal. There IS a consensus, actually. It's all in that forum and on reddit.. 4.2 war had a massive pool of lamentations and yet this IR still made it into ShB. warrior is the LEAST played tank. It plummeted from alphascape into eden. So, yeah, they KNOW who to make it for. the japanese players are just as unhappy about warrior's condition and having no identity.

if you want your answer on whom the jobs should be made for, it isn't the casual community. the bad players are going to keep playing poorly as they simply do not care to perform correctly, this is the actual issue here. and yeah, i brought up playrates. deal with it being brought up again. it matters.

I mean... holmgang is really nice in Levi with a DRK. You never share/split any tankbusters with that comp.
Holmgang isn't bad once it gets the buff, but... the duration change makes it almost as useful to me as Living Dead outside of requiring an exceptional amount of healing. Heal a WAR enough for them to survive while thier self heal helps a bit is nice. But, making all damage 0 adds another layer that healers love. PLD? Don't even consider them apart of the fight for 10 secs which is great for catching up or just free damage. Superboilde? Throw a regen on them and dps/catch up like PLD while the GNB is likely to put thier own regen on themselves.

With DRK/WAR there is a bit of a 'emergency' because you have to have them at a safe HP number as the duration runs out (and the required healing for DRK to not die) all the while any heals you throw at them during the invuln can be nulled out by auto atacks or tankbusters like stonecrusher. Complete invuln of damage alows safe heals or ignoring heals in PLD's case.

exactly this.

the issue isnt so much that it was difficult to heal for the first hit for SC, it was that healers DONT want to heal, even if it only requires ogcd heal like tetra first (and scholar doesnt want to give up EDs). holmgang will also not be fixed until that other bind is removed, as that animation is problematic as well as needing to untarget the enemy. no one cares about the bind.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

How does WAR "have no identity?" What does that even mean, and how is it important?