Reasonable buff to war

[BarretOblivion]

The biggest dumbfoundment I have with WARs right now is I ask... where the F is your spines? Seriously SE took stuff away from WARs and gave you only a required OT skill in return.
Healing on your IB and SC? Gone, bloodbath got turned into your OT skill. The strength of the best tank to pull with unchained? Gone. Your crit bonus to manage your beast gauge for optimal crit rates? Gone. Holmgang being an excellent invuln and one of the best in the game? Gone. Beserk into IR? Gone.
Etc... etc... etc...
People who are 'fine' with WAR seem to enjoy people taking stuff from you then when a new expansion comes out they give you the bird and say "you don't get any attention". Nascent Flash is not a skill that upgrades or expands WAR, its a requirement for all tanks to have now even though almost no tank uses them on anyone but themselves 95% of the time. All the other tanks got stuff to either expand upon their current core in this expansion, or are reworks/new tanks. WAR got nothing.

The "chaos" skills are passive traits, not skills. They just change fell cleave you guys have so desperately clung onto since HW into a flashy version that all other tanks don't really care about because its not that much harder hitting than any of the other skills all other tanks got (minus DRK, they are just using a good average of overall potency at about 600).

WAR is the black sheep of all the tanks now, just like how DRK was in SB, and that's not okay. WAR needs either a complete rework or at the very least some gosh darn new skills that they should have gotten post lvl 70. I should not have a barren hotbar at level 80 like this.

[Karshan]

The biggest dumbfoundment I have with WARs right now is I ask... where the F is your spines? Seriously SE took stuff away from WARs and gave you only a required OT skill in return.
Healing on your IB and SC? Gone, bloodbath got turned into your OT skill. The strength of the best tank to pull with unchained? Gone. Your crit bonus to manage your beast gauge for optimal crit rates? Gone. Holmgang being an excellent invuln and one of the best in the game? Gone. Beserk into IR? Gone.
Etc... etc... etc...
People who are 'fine' with WAR seem to enjoy people taking stuff from you then when a new expansion comes out they give you the bird and say "you don't get any attention". Nascent Flash is not a skill that upgrades or expands WAR, its a requirement for all tanks to have now even though almost no tank uses them on anyone but themselves 95% of the time. All the other tanks got stuff to either expand upon their current core in this expansion, or are reworks/new tanks. WAR got nothing.

The "chaos" skills are passive traits, not skills. They just change fell cleave you guys have so desperately clung onto since HW into a flashy version that all other tanks don't really care about because its not that much harder hitting than any of the other skills all other tanks got (minus DRK, they are just using a good average of overall potency at about 600).

WAR is the black sheep of all the tanks now, just like how DRK was in SB, and that's not okay. WAR needs either a complete rework or at the very least some gosh darn new skills that they should have gotten post lvl 70. I should not have a barren hotbar at level 80 like this.

Maybe because War was the little favorite for 2 whole expansions before (4 years), in SB it was to the point where devs directly accepted influencers ideas, like with Inner release ?

Like, I get that things are not shiny now but it's only been 3 months of suboptimal, throwing a tantrum after 4 years of topspot and being pampered would be ill received, at least I know I would. But I think I wouldn't be the only one to say "come back in 6 months then we'll consider".

[FallenWings]

Maybe because War was the little favorite for 2 whole expansions before (4 years), in SB it was to the point where devs directly accepted influencers ideas, like with Inner release ?

Like, I get that things are not shiny now but it's only been 3 months of suboptimal, throwing a tantrum after 4 years of topspot and being pampered would be ill received, at least I know I would. But I think I wouldn't be the only one to say "come back in 6 months then we'll consider".

Even then, the discrepancy from other tanks is so minuscule you bring the player and not the class. Versus before where it was WAR + X tank compositions.

2.1 - 4.55 of utter dominance and 5.0 of being ~3% worse in damage but STILL BEING THE STURDIEST TANK and crying for massive reworks? It is true what they say, the WAR mains truly cannot fathom a state outside of "Overpowered" and the reality of balance has opened their eyes to how shallow and barebones WAR mechanics have become since 4.2.

[BarretOblivion]

Maybe because War was the little favorite for 2 whole expansions before (4 years), in SB it was to the point where devs directly accepted influencers ideas, like with Inner release ?

Like, I get that things are not shiny now but it's only been 3 months of suboptimal, throwing a tantrum after 4 years of topspot and being pampered would be ill received, at least I know I would. But I think I wouldn't be the only one to say "come back in 6 months then we'll consider".

The only reason it was the favorite in SB was Holmgang and having the highest tank damage, it sure as crap wasn't its rotation. HW WAR was the best tank that worked in all fights, unlike DRK/PLD which had to basically do a relay between fights with each other.

[Karshan]

The only reason it was the favorite in SB was Holmgang and having the highest tank damage, it sure as crap wasn't its rotation. HW WAR was the best tank that worked in all fights, unlike DRK/PLD which had to basically do a relay between fights with each other.

I'm not saying it was the rotation that made him the best, but that it's the clue he was a real favourite.
So much it began to be custom made, like design on demand to some influencers ideas. It was already n°1 in damage, even when you were not so lucky with crits in burst windows, someone got whining "I am still too much crit dependant, we should be criting every FC" and you're like yeah right as if you needed that but BAM ; within 2 months it got inner release rework full guaranteed crit DH in debuff window, like wth.
Meanwhile Bards had to wait an expansion to not be so stat dependant desperately seeking always crit stuff pieces because both part of their rotation AND their damage felt like shit without 3k + crit.

All I'm saying is : it's never fun to get stripped of things, but please deal with not being top for a few months after 4 years of domination.

[NyneSwordz]

I'm not saying it was the rotation that made him the best, but that it's the clue he was a real favourite.
So much it began to be custom made, like design on demand to some influencers ideas. It was already n°1 in damage, even when you were not so lucky with crits in burst windows, someone got whining "I am still too much crit dependant, we should be criting every FC" and you're like yeah right as if you needed that but BAM ; within 2 months it got inner release rework full guaranteed crit DH in debuff window, like wth.
Meanwhile Bards had to wait an expansion to not be so stat dependant desperately seeking always crit stuff pieces because both part of their rotation AND their damage felt like shit without 3k + crit.

All I'm saying is : it's never fun to get stripped of things, but please deal with not being top for a few months after 4 years of domination.

For me, it has nothing to do with being "top" or "dominating." I couldn't care less about dps unless there was a gigantic discrepancy. However, warrior gameplay i feel has really deteriorated. I miss having 2 buffs and a debuff to maintain. I miss the powerful feeling of lining up berserk, infuriate and bloodbath. High level tanks didn't use tank stance in raids. Okay, but I loved spamming steel cyclone in dungeons or being able to pull through when my healer dies in a dungeon cuz of my great self sustain in tank stance with ib.

Aoe ing was just overpower twice then single target combo to decimate which felt fine and wasn't clunky like overpower to mythril tempest is now.

All this stuff didnt necessarily make warrior a top tank for raids. But IT WAS FUN. To me anyway.

ShB war design just doesnt feel as cohesive as past iterations did.

Even if wars were so-called top in demand tank right now with top dps, I'd still hate it and much prefer its hw or sb versions.

Last thing, i always rolled my eyez when people complain about "fell cleave spam meme" or whatever, but now, i kinda get it. ShB warrior is a fc spam bot. Even more so with infuriate and ic - which is just another fc in my mind. Would be nice to have some kind mechanic around maybe upheaval, or upheaval applying a dot or something instead of more fc spamming.

Or maybe some kind of defensive manuever tied to beast guage. Maybe a heal tied to it? Or something to fill in the hole left by the absence of ib as a rage spender whose primary purpose was mitigation and self heal.

I actually miss inner beast.

Eh...

[Deceptus]

The biggest dumbfoundment I have with WARs right now is I ask... where the F is your spines? Seriously SE took stuff away from WARs and gave you only a required OT skill in return.
Healing on your IB and SC? Gone, bloodbath got turned into your OT skill. The strength of the best tank to pull with unchained? Gone. Your crit bonus to manage your beast gauge for optimal crit rates? Gone. Holmgang being an excellent invuln and one of the best in the game? Gone. Beserk into IR? Gone.
Etc... etc... etc...
People who are 'fine' with WAR seem to enjoy people taking stuff from you then when a new expansion comes out they give you the bird and say "you don't get any attention". Nascent Flash is not a skill that upgrades or expands WAR, its a requirement for all tanks to have now even though almost no tank uses them on anyone but themselves 95% of the time. All the other tanks got stuff to either expand upon their current core in this expansion, or are reworks/new tanks. WAR got nothing.

The "chaos" skills are passive traits, not skills. They just change fell cleave you guys have so desperately clung onto since HW into a flashy version that all other tanks don't really care about because its not that much harder hitting than any of the other skills all other tanks got (minus DRK, they are just using a good average of overall potency at about 600).

WAR is the black sheep of all the tanks now, just like how DRK was in SB, and that's not okay. WAR needs either a complete rework or at the very least some gosh darn new skills that they should have gotten post lvl 70. I should not have a barren hotbar at level 80 like this.

Holy hyperbole batman.

First: DRK lost it's ability to AoE heal in mass pulls just like Warrior did. Does that suck you can't be super insanely self sufficient? Kind of, but SE wants healers to heal more and that is why they took away tank aoe healing.

Second: Holmgang gone? You can move with it activated now and it just got extended timeframe wise.

WAR might be the "weakest" of the 4 tanks but someone has to be and they're not the weakest by that much. They can still clear content just fine.

[Lyth]

Holmgang is now at 8 seconds without any penalty, which makes it flat out more powerful than both Superbollide and Living Dead. They buffed Raw Intuition as well.

[Karshan]

However, warrior gameplay i feel has really deteriorated.

That, however, I can hear. Even in SB actually it began ; my buddy was really disappointed when they removed all the Small / Big zerk rotation when managing ressource was a real thing and gave spice.

Now it's like the heals : you're all in line, quite boring rotation wise (with gnb being the only one feeling a bit engaging ? Heck maybe it's just novelty even, to be checked in a few months).

So compared to previous gameplay yeah your rotation changed a lot ; but DRK got streamlined too, and PLD didn't need to get streamlined cause it was already straightforward af.

So where I wanted to go : true you've taken a hit ; but you're not behind, just in line. So asking for a rework, from the outside, sounds like : "I don't want to be in line with others".
So either all tanks revolt about their rotation to have it more diversed (the danger being breaking balance which is really decent for tanks this time, see the mess with melee vs range DPS), or none.

[Hanayumi]

Overall War is pretty fine where it is, sure their dps is a bit on the low end, but have to keep in mind that War's scale far better with crit than the other tanks, so late into the 5.X dps should be pretty decent. As for the feel think most of the jobs took a hit, skill trimming, simplifying, balancing, and what not, got worked into a lot of the jobs, and it'll prolly happen again for next expac, might be a day where we get like single button combos and such. So yeah... take it or leave it, devs are pretty content with how the tanks are right now and if you really hate how it feels there are plenty of other jobs to play around with, dont see any major changes happen till next expac. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯