crafting is gone

[TheGrimace]

I'm enjoying most of the changes so far. Even after all of the ability culling, I think there are too many abilities for rare situations, but having less need for constant Steady Hands is greatly appreciated.

[Granyala]

What annoys me the most is that I now have to waste Goetia materials just to get a feel for the new skills, numbers and trying to come up with new ways to make it work.

Seriously SE, overhauls like this are to be done on expansion releases, so people have a leveling phase to acclimate to the changes. You don't just punch classes into the gut like that mid expansion!

[CookiesNCreams]

Not going to forget what Yoshida said in that Dengeki interview. I’m going to assume the endgame procs/rng that force people to not use macros won’t be added until 5.1.1 or 5.2. Whether it’ll be added to all endgame recipes or Ishgard is fine with me.

Just hope SE knows that if it’s Ishgard only, hardcore crafters won’t really bother doing it unless the rewards are pretty good. Like, high stat tools and gear. And if it’s going to be mere glam, it needs to be like, 2B butt level types of l.e.w.d, otherwise nobody will do it, lol. Leaderboards and minions aren’t reason enough for getting people into it, but I’m sure they know that. :P

[KageTokage]

Not going to forget what Yoshida said in that Dengeki interview. I’m going to assume the endgame procs/rng that force people to not use macros won’t be added until 5.1.1 or 5.2. Whether it’ll be added to all endgame recipes or Ishgard is fine with me.

Just hope SE knows that if it’s Ishgard only, hardcore crafters won’t really bother doing it unless the rewards are pretty good. Like, high stat tools and gear. And if it’s going to be mere glam, it needs to be like, 2B butt level types of l.e.w.d, otherwise nobody will do it, lol. Leaderboards and minions aren’t reason enough for getting people into it, but I’m sure they know that. :P

I think if so many people are willing to spend such insane amounts of time on getting orange parses on FFLogs, there's bound to be a ton of people who'll grind the rankings hard (Legitimately or otherwise) just for the public "prestige" of being at the top with any associated rewards being icing on the cake.

[Aurida]

Ehn, harder recipes just mean better macros. Or macros that are more of a pain? The only thing you could meaningfully respond to are the actions only usable on Good condition steps, and even then, going in with a game plan to exploit those is A) vulnerable to RNG, which is always a bad thing and B) weaker than buff stacking anyway?

Heck, the only thing separating macro inputs from non macro inputs at this point is the fact that I could theoretically careful observation so my byregot's doesn't land on a poor, and that's not even worth the few seconds it takes me to press the button and spend the delineation.

I'm certain there's nothing they can do to make it difficult at this point, which is just fantastic for every type of crafter since it wastes less of our time and resources spent on the actual act of crafting

[Granyala]

Ehn, harder recipes just mean better macros. Or macros that are more of a pain?

Honestly, I would only use macros for bulk crafting.
Everything else is crafted by hand.... with a lot of love and care.

I don't mind procs forcing me to adapt and use my brain but I would mind dumb RNG just screwing it up for RNGs sake. That's not "hard", that's just needlessly frustrating and can be overcome by brute force.

I discovered teamcraft.com's simulator half an hour ago and I have to say: I like the changes to crafting a lot.

[Krojack]

What annoys me the most is that I now have to waste Goetia materials just to get a feel for the new skills, numbers and trying to come up with new ways to make it work.

Seriously SE, overhauls like this are to be done on expansion releases, so people have a leveling phase to acclimate to the changes. You don't just punch classes into the gut like that mid expansion!

I'm not that good and I've already got the hand of it. Already crafted the crafting 460 gear.

[CookiesNCreams]

Ehn, harder recipes just mean better macros. Or macros that are more of a pain? The only thing you could meaningfully respond to are the actions only usable on Good condition steps, and even then, going in with a game plan to exploit those is A) vulnerable to RNG, which is always a bad thing and B) weaker than buff stacking anyway?

Heck, the only thing separating macro inputs from non macro inputs at this point is the fact that I could theoretically careful observation so my byregot's doesn't land on a poor, and that's not even worth the few seconds it takes me to press the button and spend the delineation.

I'm certain there's nothing they can do to make it difficult at this point, which is just fantastic for every type of crafter since it wastes less of our time and resources spent on the actual act of crafting

You can’t macro a rotation that requires you to use 2-3 proc moves in multiple situational settings, like, at all. It’s optimistic thinking to believe that. It’ll all be rng in 5.1.1 (or 5.2, more likely). Also, it’s impossible to make crafting skill based like I said earlier. It’s too math based to be that way. They can either choose RNG for endgame, or laughably easy and 100% guaranteed. Obviously the former is a better choice for hardcore players.

I think some folks forget that what Yoshida was talking about is not meant for casual crafters, it was intended for hardcore ones. Casual crafters already got 2+ years of updates and QoL fixes including 5.1. So, it would make sense that 5.2 is for the hardcore folks. I mean, it makes sense.

5.1 - casual crafters first
5.2 - hardcore crafters second

Because if they did hardcore players first, there would be a riot on the forums, lol.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Tbf those procs might not actually "gate out" casuals from those hardcore recipes. Yes, you can't make a fully automatic macro to deal with the procs. But there's nothing stopping people from executing steps from the macro manually, with guidelines on how to deal with the procs.

And I doubt they'll implement an extra system on top of the main one, complicated enough to only allow the most committed to handle it. You already had the limitations in the Ixali quests and they ended up discarding that. That would be imo the path to making certain crafts harder: random debuffs that would require people to adapt their actions, not just follow a script that wouldn't work anyway because you had less CP than usual or no access to certain abilities.

[CookiesNCreams]

Tbf those procs might not actually "gate out" casuals from those hardcore recipes. Yes, you can't make a fully automatic macro to deal with the procs. But there's nothing stopping people from executing steps from the macro manually, with guidelines on how to deal with the procs.

And I doubt they'll implement an extra system on top of the main one, complicated enough to only allow the most committed to handle it. You already had the limitations in the Ixali quests and they ended up discarding that. That would be imo the path to making certain crafts harder: random debuffs that would require people to adapt their actions, not just follow a script that wouldn't work anyway because you had less CP than usual or no access to certain abilities.

Huh? The point isn’t to “gate out” casuals, it’s to give hardcore players something fun to do, and hopefully, get rewarded for. That’s really it lol. If casuals want to try their hand at the upcoming difficult rng recipes, I sure welcome them to try. They might like it.

Also, sorry, but macro’ing something so complicated just sounds impossible or, completely inefficient and inconvenient. I know people want access to everything crafting related, but he’s made it pretty clear you can’t macro these upcoming recipes. I don’t think macros will “save the day” this time like you hope it will.