Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[xJimmehx]

Why does everyone forget about Equilibrium?

Aurora? 1200 total potency over its duration.
Clemency? 1200 total potency, more with Requiescat.
Equilibrium? 1200 total potency. WAR also has Thrill, which can also increase the effectiveness of Equilibrium and also a heal in its own that scales with gear exponentially owing to it being a percentage.
(DRK has nothing...cough)

The Difference? Aurora and Clemency can be cast on other people (Clemency makes you loose damage)...Equilibrium can't....And yet people are annoyed NF, a weaker skill than RI that also shares its cooldown, can only be used as party support but their 1200 potency heal CANT but use the other tanks 1200 potency heals as an arguing point against warrior....I dont get it. Soooo...Where is your argument? WAR already has more healing skills than the other tanks, on paper and in a vacuum, as everyone seems to want to compare them in.

Some of this is just my personal opinion, but using NF doesnt feel good. Thats the argument id like to make. You have to swap target, apply NF, swap back to enemy, burst as fast as possible. It feels kinda clunky and is very different for people who have played WAR a long time. We used to just pop bloodbath and spam bursts.

Also Clemency can be used like 4 times in a row... Aurora is weak but lasts a long time. So its not actually that good either. Its only really useful for throwing on others or making the healers job a little easier but lets be honest. The regen affect is so small if you were going to die without it you will probably die with it anyways. If you arent topped off and arent getting hit, then great, top off with it, but otherwise.. dont depend on it in most situations. Its not an "Oh-sh@# button" like Clemency, Thrill+Equilibrium. Equilibrium and thrill also have large cooldowns. NF is like every 25(20 or 25? idr) seconds.

If you check certain resources you will find that war self sustain is actually pretty low when compared to other tanks. I also wouldnt compare too much to other tanks to determine if NF is "good enough" personally, but I would focus on how it feels and right now its not fun to stop what im doing to setup a nf-heal-burst combo. Macros help of course, but if nobody is alive and you are being aoe'd it would be nice to have. Even if you arent being hit during something like a 24man where you are OT, You could slowly build that hp back up with NF but nope. Youre team is dead and you cant even apply it to somebody from a different alliance. How does RI help you when you arent being hit but need to recover some hp from a few of those weaker raid wide aoes? Just wait for thrill/Equ to pop a few times...and hope you dont get hit beforehand.

[Reynhart]

Using decimate on top of 2 chaotic cyclones is amazing in packs. RI isnt as good if you have the cooldowns to do this.

In what situation would you use NF over RI and don't have a party member available for target ?

Aurora is weak but lasts a long time.

In my opinion, Aurora should have a higher total potency, since it has the drawback of being a HoT.

We used to just pop bloodbath and spam bursts.

And that's exactly what they decided to remove, alongside the Abyssal Drain spam that gave DRK immortality back in HW. At least WAR still have a way to achieve the same result in the end.

[xJimmehx]

In what situation would you use NF over RI and don't have a party member available for target ?

And that's exactly what they decided to remove, alongside the Abyssal Drain spam that gave DRK immortality back in HW. At least WAR still have a way to achieve the same result in the end.

I found myself the only party member alive in Copied Factory last night. My health wasnt full and I wasnt being hit very much. Mostly just unavoidable aoes. Im pretty good at dogding the rest. I survived until the other party killed the boss, but I was low hp. Having a solo NF would have been useful then. I could have hit the boss and gained at least a little bit of health where RI would only last 6s and would barely mitigate anything. They dont deal much to start with. 20% of a small attack is nothing compared to NF Fell Cleave+ Inner Chaos x2.

I was just waiting on Thrill and Equilibrium the whole time. That and spamming Storms Path.

[JoHighnes]

To play devil's advocate, would you want NF to be warrior clemency though?

One complaint we see about jobs at the moment is where there's homogenisation. In this regard Warrior having its own thing would be better? (and by all means, with room for improvement) Rather than expecting it to work like a similar skill PLD has.

I think a lot of the complaints have historical reasons. Warrior was the only tank actually utilizing stance dancing, so when they removed tank stances warrior lost the most.

Warrior did have a warrior-style clemency in tank stance. Inner Beast gave a good chunk of on-demand healing at the cost of some dps (lower potency than fell cleave). Steel Cyclone also had a self heal built in so you could pull a large pack of enemies then go inner release -> steel cyclone and be invincible for 10 seconds.

If their intention was for warrior to lose its position as a self sustain tank, then fair enough. But at least be clear about it. Adding a half broken skill like NF that feels horrible to use but still has a semblance of the old times is just sending mixed signals and keeps reminding of what once was.

I'm not touching warrior anymore since what I loved about it was stance dancing and the heavy sustain. But I don't play GB either for the same later reason, so I'm not saying warrior is worst off.

[Reynhart]

I found myself the only party member alive in Copied Factory last night. My health wasnt full and I wasnt being hit very much. Mostly just unavoidable aoes. Im pretty good at dogding the rest. I survived until the other party killed the boss, but I was low hp.

So, the issue there is not that NF needs a party member, but that some effects, including NF, should also work on alliance members, which was something that was asked from a very long time.

Warrior was the only tank actually utilizing stance dancing, so when they removed tank stances warrior lost the most.

Frankly, I'd say the exact opposite. You didn't lose anything tied to stance dancing. However, you gained the ability to use your most devastating skills regardless of your stance.

Warrior did have a warrior-style clemency in tank stance. Inner Beast gave a good chunk of on-demand healing at the cost of some dps (lower potency than fell cleave).

People on this very forum constantly argued that using Inner Beast was a waste. That's why its effects were split into your new toolkit : the tank mastery trait, the removal of stance requirement for Equilibrium, and the reduced CD for Raw Intuition.

[JoHighnes]

People on this very forum constantly argued that using Inner Beast was a waste. That's why its effects were split into your new toolkit, since Equilibrium doesn't require a damage penalty, and Raw Intuition is as available as old Inner Beast, with no gauge cost, thus, no damage penalty again.

You can argue it's a waste in the ideal run where everything goes perfectly. But being dead is a dps loss way higher than the penalty you took for using IB instead of FC. In that sense it was very similar to clemency. You don't touch it until you really need it. And when you really need it it's a godsend. Equilibrium already existed, so that was nothing given as a compensation. NF is what warrior got to compensate for the self sustain they lost.

[Shurrikhan]

People on this very forum constantly argued that using Inner Beast was a waste. That's why its effects were split into your new toolkit : the tank mastery trait, the removal of stance requirement for Equilibrium, and the reduced CD for Raw Intuition.

That does nothing when the same advantages are given to the other tanks and damage taken is increased to compensate; the net change was solely the loss of a (generally excessive, similarly to Clemency) mitigation option.

[Reynhart]

You can argue it's a waste in the ideal run where everything goes perfectly. But being dead is a dps loss way higher than the penalty you took for using IB instead of FC.

Except that I don't really think you're less sturdy than before. Now, you constantly take 20% damage, are able to reduce damage more than before with Raw Intuition (and now the longer duration for Vengeance) and recover more HP with Equilibrium+ToB. And, if you're not the last person standing, can heal much more than before since you have more powerful skill, while still taking reduced damage from your trait.

Equilibrium already existed, so that was nothing given as a compensation.

Not in Defiance nor coupled with a native damage reduction.

That does nothing when the same advantages are given to the other tanks and damage taken is increased to compensate

PLD and DRK lost their tank stance to gain the same benefit from Tank Mastery. WAR lost its tank stance for the same mastery and gain its additionnal effect on ToB, expanded to all healing actions, while having Raw Intuition uptime extremely buffed. Meaning that now, WAR is no longer the tank that get hit for more, but still the one that's healed for more. And other tanks still have no way of refilling all their HP while still doing a lot of damage at all.

Before, the only other tank that could do that in AoE situation was DRK, and it was nerfed rock bottom.

[JoHighnes]

Except that I don't really think you're less sturdy than before. Now, you constantly take 20% damage, are able to reduce damage more than before with Raw Intuition (and now the longer duration for Vengeance) and recover more HP with Equilibrium+ToB. And, if you're not the last person standing, can heal much more than before since you have more powerful skill, while still taking reduced damage from your trait.

The flat 20% given to all tanks just means they will balance the content around that, so net gain is 0. It just means non-tanks will take more damage if they become targeted. The increased 30% damage reduction duration change was made to all tanks, so it is no relative change, but a nice addition non the less. If RI was made to not share CD with NF then it would be a pretty decent skill. But right now, most of the time you gain more effective HP by using NF to heal yourself for more than the 20% damage RI would have spared you from. The reason I can think of using RI would be to make tankbusters more predictable for the healers, since they don't need to guess how hp you will recover on your own.

Not in Defiance nor coupled with a native damage reduction.

For things like Equilibrium you could swap to tank stance and use Unchained to ignore the damage penalty of the tank stance until you swapped back. A bit more messy and I admit I more than once accidentally used it for TP when I intended to self heal. So while it wasn't added it was definitely a nice QoL upgrade to always have it heal.

And, if you're not the last person standing, can heal much more than before since you have more powerful skill, while still taking reduced damage from your trait.

If you think that, you never did try IR + spamming IB. That was almost at the level of Requiescat + Clemency spam. A bit lower healing, but more damage dealt, and on a longer cooldown.
Edit: My misread. I read "now" the last person standing, instead of "not". The point still stands if the other person standing with you is not a healer. And even then it is nice to give your healer time to not care about you and just revive the rest of the party.

[Reynhart]

The flat 20% given to all tanks just means they will balance the content around that, so net gain is 0.

But for all tank, their tank stance was just moved to a trait. They didn't have an additionnal effect above that, and their CD weren't changed much. Give me one PLD/DRK cd whose CD was reduced as much a Raw Intuition. What PLD and DRK gained was a drastically reduced block strength, a nerfed and not free Cover and a nerfed Dark Mind...(And a slightly stronger TBN for self, ok...)

If RI was made to not share CD with NF then it would be a pretty decent skill. But right now, most of the time you gain more effective HP by using NF to heal yourself for more than the 20% damage RI would have spared you from.

Do you really, if you don't have your spam window available ?

For things like Equilibrium you could swap to tank stance and use Unchained to ignore the damage penalty of the tank stance until you swapped back.

You'd still lose the Deliverance bonus for 10s, and locked out of Fell Cleave. I hope it wouldn't line up with a party burst window.

If you think that, you never did try IR + spamming IB.

Inner Chaos is three times as powerful as Inner Beast was, and it's a guaranteed Crit/DH, even if you don't have your 90s IR available. And if you do, Fell Cleave is still almost twice the potency of past Inner Beast. So, in those 6s, it's very easy to pack much more potency that you could in 10s before...and you don't "lose" any damage doing so.