A good old boyish cott

[Saefinn]

Radio silence... like how throughout stormblood mch’s got no word yet we got a massive rework in 5.0 and we didnt find out until a few months before.

This boycott thing needs to stop. It wont succeed and what you are calling for doesnt punish se, it punishes players and the community in general, what it advocates is you feel so entitled to your opinion that you are willing to destroy the enjoyment of the greater community by denying them access to new content.

How many of us are excited for the new alliance raid or the new msq dungeon? People have been so excited for the nier raid. People who pay just as much as you do to play and enjoy this game. And boycotts like this just scream out. “Our enjoyment of the game is more important than anyone else’s.” Whether thats intended or not isnt the point. Thats what it boils down to.

One last point FFXIV is not square enix’s primary source of income so even if subs did drop off it would not get you the result you seek. Make a concentrated thread. Find middle ground with those who are unsatisfied and those who are. Make calm rational criticisms. Be a force they cant ignore and stop resorting to tantrum tactics.

MCH's situation was very frustrating too as I recall they had a lot of complaining about it and on more than one ocassion SE suggested MCH was fine, despite people saying otherwise. Though I know people don't want to wait around until 6.0, especially in cases like WHM who have waited as long as MCH has for their issues to be addressed, be told they're getting addressed...and then find they're not.

But on the note of entitlement. This is actually why boycotts can be a good thing. In nature, yes, they seem very self-entitled. "I don't like this thing, therefore I'm gonna just not partake until you give me what I want! Hmph." But a single disgruntled person doing it is gonna do nothing. A handful of disgruntled people is gonna do nothing. The scale of disgruntled people needed to be able to make a dent to get noticed where it is causing a problem for people would also be large enough to say "hey maybe we should listen if there's this many people who feel strongly about it". Because even if the OP managed to get 1000 people to join them, you're talking a player base of millions. Last I checked, 16 million.

Even 10,000 players is a tiny percentage. It'd take an awful lot of people agreeing "this is what I want", to which point it's not longer about "this is what I want" but the desire of a sizeable number of people who form a section of your customer base. So boycotts only work if enough people care about them, by which point they're justifed because so many people care about them, or enough people don't care about them and has no effect.

As for your suggestion, this has what the forums have been like since before launch - or at least, this is as far back as I've been participating, they could even go further back than from when I started getting involved.

And with regards to income. I remember looking up the figures a couple of years ago. Final Fantasy XI was the top grossing Final Fantasy title of all time, with Final Fantasy XIV in a very close second (and probably has since surpassed it). And Final Fantasy is one of SE's biggest, if not biggest, franchises. MMO's generate a lot of moolah. Especially successful ones. So whilst I don't think if they shut down the game, it'd ruin their business, but I just don't see them doing that when the game makes a lot of money. They realise its earning potential, which is why they threw so much money at it when 1.0 was such a spectacular failure. I mean, I don't expect a boycott to result in something so dramatic, but I don't think we can underestimate how big FFXIV is.

[Aurturia]

This boycott thing needs to stop. It wont succeed and what you are calling for doesnt punish se, it punishes players and the community in general, what it advocates is you feel so entitled to your opinion that you are willing to destroy the enjoyment of the greater community by denying them access to new content.

How many of us are excited for the new alliance raid or the new msq dungeon? People have been so excited for the nier raid. People who pay just as much as you do to play and enjoy this game. And boycotts like this just scream out. “Our enjoyment of the game is more important than anyone else’s.” Whether thats intended or not isnt the point. Thats what it boils down to.

You do realize you're demanding for people who may not be enjoying the game as it is to shut up and serve a roll for your enjoyment of the game, yes? That being said no an organized boycott was never going to happen. Those of us who couldn't tolerate the changes have already abandoned the role, anyone who's unhappy but holding on well they either get used to it or leave too.

[Crushnight]

...but yet you call AST "carpal tunnel inducing", lol.

Which is it, you want to be doing things constantly, or you don't.

Honestly, you people don't seem like you can make up your mind.

I'll try to explain why it is so horrendous to optimize(not normal play) AST on controller in 8 man content(it is less an issue in 4 man stuff).

You have 4 gcds to get 3 seal divination out,
You have drawn 1 card rdy in play pre pull with draw coming off cd before/as you hit your 1st gcd(your DoT),
Immediately as you see server tick(your DoT is best indicator) tap up/down on the dpad up to 4 times to get to the selected player for card buff if still in between gcds then draw and lightspeed,
Retarget + Gcd nuke/heal,
Ogcd draw if weren't able then press up/down on dpad up to 4 times to get to selected player if a correct seal and then Sleeve Draw if not redraw,
Retarget + Gcd nuke/heal,
Sleeve Draw if didn't redraw if last seal press up/down on dpad up to 4 times to get selected player if not redraw minor arcana card if able,
Retarget + Gcd nuke/heal,
3-seal Divination goes out, minor arcana new cards to lords/ladys press up/down on Dpad for remaining 1/2 Sleeve Draws up to a total of 6 times,
Retarget + Gcd nuke/heal,

There is only a 24% chance to get 3-seal divination without redraws so at best case scenerio a controller going for optimal settings would press 24 buttons by their 5th gcd 12.5secs at most into a fight, worse case 37 buttons are meant to be pressed in the same timeframe. This is repeated every 6 minutes into fights. Also meant to happen as you handle mechanics etc etc.

The minor Arcana change is going to reduce that best case scenerio by 3.


It is this crazy amount of work for far less payoff than a Whm going Dia, Glarex4 +any ogcds they use in between, why so many people hate new AST either they buff the cards breaking their balance but at least making the above tolerable as there is a worthwhile payoff, or change how AST currently is designed because it is not worth it, the above is why if someone asks should i play AST? i have to ask do you care about optimizing if i get a yes i tell them not to bother until they fix it, if no feel free to try it out ofc.

[Darkpaw]

You do realize you're demanding for people who may not be enjoying the game as it is to shut up and serve a roll for your enjoyment of the game, yes? That being said no an organized boycott was never going to happen. Those of us who couldn't tolerate the changes have already abandoned the role, anyone who's unhappy but holding on well they either get used to it or leave too.

Thank you for cherry picking my post to make your point. I did not and do not advocate for anyone to shut up so that I can enjoy the game. At the end of my original post I offered a suggestion aside from boycotting. The same solution that served warriors, machinists, and several other communities in this game. So please do not present what I said unfaithfully.

I understand the healers are upset with many of the changes, and I agree that missteps were made. It happens. It sucks that its happening to healers again. However; i will never support a boycott of a role. Warriors pre 4.2 didnt call for boycotts of the tank role far as i recall. Machinists didnt call for a boycott of ranged dps, paladins in heavensward, ninjas in shadowbringers havent called for boycotts due to unfair balancing.

Because it is wrong to impact the community when other avenues are available to these disgruntled players. Make a concentrated forum post stick to your guns, suggest real viable solutions, innovative ideas. Do it with civility and respect. Post questions during q&a’s, get a strong community effort across all the language forums. But don’t punish other players enjoyment of the game just because you are not happy. You would be pissed if another player did it to you.

[Kuwago]

I'm just going to be saying my piece after reading everything that's going on right now.

From what I have gathered, people are looking to see that healers be addresses not because of balancing issues but because of what the problems that have persisted since the start of this expansion, which is Mostly that SCH and AST was gutted to be as easy to pick up and play as WHM. Not saying that WHM is not without it's complexity, which I think they really nailed with Afflatus Heals and the Blood Lily for Damage. I think that's where to problem started from, WHM got additional stuff to it's kit that is very straightforward and simple, which fit's because it is the Healer that is very beginner friendly and a great Segway into the healing role.

SCH and AST however, was simplified to the point of WHM's beginner friendly gameplay. SCH was leaning towards the DPS heavy healer within the role, for DOTs as well as Bane to be taken away left SCH with just one DOT and one AOE. Correct me if I'm wrong but SCH wants their DOTs back, hell for me I want Bane back since manually putting DOTs on each enemy is too much of a hassle. Going from SB SCH where there was DOT management alongside Fairy Management to ShB SCH where both are pretty much gone is kinda…. disheartening to say the least, and that is what SCH players are crying out.

AST on the other hand, lost the complexity of cards and the manipulation of cards into... lackluster DMG increase cards that is separated by Melee/Ranged Roles. SB AST had tons of ways to manipulate cards with Royal Road effects (50% potency but turns it into AOE, 150% Potency for the next card, or 200% duration) or Minor Arcana alterations (Lord deals damage to enemy and Lady heals party members) while ShB only have Minor Arcana, where it changes the current card you pulled into.... the same DMG increase card with an extra 1%/2% potency increase. The differences in the gameplay is astounding for AST going from an actual support/buffing healer to a DMG increase healer bot that is pretty negligible when it comes to the DMG increase.

While there are people who like the newer iterations to the healers, there are others who played the jobs because of the things that they were able to do, and now, they are working on a compromise between the two iterations, which SE is resistant to listening to those who have experience playing with the class.

[Aurturia]

Thank you for cherry picking my post to make your point. I did not and do not advocate for anyone to shut up so that I can enjoy the game. At the end of my original post I offered a suggestion aside from boycotting. The same solution that served warriors, machinists, and several other communities in this game. So please do not present what I said unfaithfully.

I understand the healers are upset with many of the changes, and I agree that missteps were made. It happens. It sucks that its happening to healers again. However; i will never support a boycott of a role. Warriors pre 4.2 didnt call for boycotts of the tank role far as i recall. Machinists didnt call for a boycott of ranged dps, paladins in heavensward, ninjas in shadowbringers havent called for boycotts due to unfair balancing.

Because it is wrong to impact the community when other avenues are available to these disgruntled players. Make a concentrated forum post stick to your guns, suggest real viable solutions, innovative ideas. Do it with civility and respect. Post questions during q&a’s, get a strong community effort across all the language forums. But don’t punish other players enjoyment of the game just because you are not happy. You would be pissed if another player did it to you.

And let me thank you for ignoring the second half of my post. So with that cattiness out of the way i'll go ahead and address your whole post this time. I didn't bother with your suggestion because those threads already exist, several that go on for pages. They go on because this public forum is one of the few ways we can get any attention from the dev team.

As for being against a boycott thats fine, but if someone else wants to call for one that dosen't mean anything. Not unless the rest of the healing community is upset enough to follow him. If this post was enough to move the healers into an actual boycott then there is a serious problem and they aren't obligated to serve the rest of the community because new content is released.

You mentioned machinists, ninjas, warriors, and paladins, the last two specifically during separate time frames. Even if any of them had been upset enough to call for boycott none of them had the pull to make a big enough dent in the community as individual jobs. Coming back to healers now its primarily 2 of the 3 jobs people have a problem with so they might have had a chance if everyone who played them agreed, but they dont.

To your last paragraph I can only say again no one is obligated to play a role they aren't enjoying to satisfy the community. If anyone believes this is the only way to get the attention of devs, the last 4 months would seem to confirm it. If theres enough people willing to follow through on a boycott then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. And if everything is ok enough for healers to keep healing then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

[DiznypKC]

Having great fun with my healers right now, thanks. Still don't care for AST much but I haven't liked it since they arrived.

I mean, okay some folks aren't happy but - and I have said this multiple times - I don't know a single person in game who has any complaints. We are all still maining our healers and enjoying the game. Stop using your personal opinion as though it's objective fact, a large number of players find the changes refreshing and helpful, a complex DPS rotation is the last thing a healer needs from our point of view.

If they could find a way to increase complexity for healers at Savage level and above, fine. But I can't think of a way for that to work and not impose the same expectations on all healers in all content. I'm not advocating lazy play but a lot of us - the majority I believe - don't have the co-ordination, memory capacity, speed of reaction and so on to be Savage level skill. The current level of healer play is perfect for me and has allowed me to thoroughly enjoy the MSQ dungeons and the Eden raid. I barely touched the Omega raid because it was way too stressful as a healer.

Anyway I certainly shan't be boycotting. Thanks for reading and please do try and consider the perspective of other people before you rant

Um...please direct yourself to the 30+ page discussion by players who have quite healing due to the current iteration.

Their opinion is just as valid as yours. Practice what you preach.

Your enjoyment of the game should not be at the expense of someone else’s. That’s the worst kind of attitude you could have in an MMO.

[Cyrocco]

Um...please direct yourself to the 30+ page discussion by players who have quite healing due to the current iteration.

Their opinion is just as valid as yours. Practice what you preach.

I'll admit I somewhat indulge in the irony of how players who have "quit" healing still come to the healer forum religiously.

[Saefinn]

I'll admit I somewhat indulge in the irony of how players who have "quit" healing still come to the healer forum religiously.

Not really that ironic. The people who quit healing did so because they don't like the changes and found they no longer enjoy playing them, it's kinda self defeating to play something you don't enjoy anymore.

The forums are a good place to contribute feedback and push for changes so that they can continue enjoying it. It has worked for a lot of jobs where changes have resulted in dissatisfaction.

[LariaKirin]

Um...please direct yourself to the 30+ page discussion by players who have quite healing due to the current iteration.

Their opinion is just as valid as yours. Practice what you preach.

Your enjoyment of the game should not be at the expense of someone else’s. That’s the worst kind of attitude you could have in an MMO.

It's not a 30+ page discussion by players who have quit healing. Maybe read the thread to avoid spreading misinformation.

Not really that ironic. The people who quit healing did so because they don't like the changes and found they no longer enjoy playing them, it's kinda self defeating to play something you don't enjoy anymore.

The forums are a good place to contribute feedback and push for changes so that they can continue enjoying it. It has worked for a lot of jobs where changes have resulted in dissatisfaction.

You speak for people who quit healing?