A good old boyish cott

**Nanami_Naniwa** · 10-23-2019 04:05 PM

As someone who hates doing DPS as a healer and is happy that I don't have to bother with a "fancy" rotation anymore I'm going to play the hell out of healer. Not everyone despise the changes. Not everyone is unhappy with how it is right now. There are a lot of people who really enjoy their healers. And it is a little bit tiresome when people call for such "drastic" meassures. I mean - that's probably not even realistic.

Don't get me wrong. I can understand that there are people who are unhappy right now and who wish a change regarding the healing (or dpsing in that case...). But that doesn't mean that everyone agrees on that.

Personally I switched to AST with ShB because I finally could wrap my head around it and found it joyful to play which wasn't the case pre-ShB.

**Hysterior** · 10-23-2019 04:08 PM

I enjoy WHM as it is right now so if you boycott, I will come back and thank you for the even faster queues <3

**Elladie** · 10-23-2019 05:32 PM

Having great fun with my healers right now, thanks. Still don't care for AST much but I haven't liked it since they arrived.

I mean, okay some folks aren't happy but - and I have said this multiple times - I don't know a single person in game who has any complaints. We are all still maining our healers and enjoying the game. Stop using your personal opinion as though it's objective fact, a large number of players find the changes refreshing and helpful, a complex DPS rotation is the last thing a healer needs from our point of view.

If they could find a way to increase complexity for healers at Savage level and above, fine. But I can't think of a way for that to work and not impose the same expectations on all healers in all content. I'm not advocating lazy play but a lot of us - the majority I believe - don't have the co-ordination, memory capacity, speed of reaction and so on to be Savage level skill. The current level of healer play is perfect for me and has allowed me to thoroughly enjoy the MSQ dungeons and the Eden raid. I barely touched the Omega raid because it was way too stressful as a healer.

Anyway I certainly shan't be boycotting. Thanks for reading and please do try and consider the perspective of other people before you rant

**Saefinn** · 10-23-2019 06:00 PM

On the note of those currently enjoying healers, I think there is definitely room for compromise, rather than those of us who dislike the changes taking an "all or nothing" approach. At least when I've given feedback, I try to consider how it plays now and people who like it. We liked how it played and you guys like how it plays. Both are perfectly valid.

This is why I think the best solution is to just give us more to do in our downtime. It doesnt mess with the current design from a healing tools, those who have less down time aren't going to be affected, but those who have a lot of downtime aren't getting bored. And whilst it may mean some wil be doing suboptimal play (which like most people do anyway), for content outside of savage, optimal play is not that important.

**Elladie** · 10-24-2019 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Saefinn

On the note of those currently enjoying healers, I think there is definitely room for compromise, rather than those of us who dislike the changes taking an "all or nothing" approach. At least when I've given feedback, I try to consider how it plays now and people who like it. We liked how it played and you guys like how it plays. Both are perfectly valid.

This is why I think the best solution is to just give us more to do in our downtime. It doesnt mess with the current design from a healing tools, those who have less down time aren't going to be affected, but those who have a lot of downtime aren't getting bored. And whilst it may mean some wil be doing suboptimal play (which like most people do anyway), for content outside of savage, optimal play is not that important.

The point is, optimal play IS that important to a lot of people, even if they aren't that skilled a player themselves. Currently I'm comfortable with DPS as a healer even in Eden4 which, for me, is a duty that needs a lot of concentration to deal with mechanics. If you increase complexity of my DPS rotation, something is going to give. I will struggle to learn the next new fight because I'll be worrying about being judged for non-optimal play ( how many DPS or get kicked posts have we seen right here?) and I'll end up losing my confidence and going back to doing no content that involves other people.

I am not asking for carries, I am asking for basic content to be doable by all players as long as they take the time to learn their job and the mechanics of the duty. So I'm also asking that unnecessary complexity not be added to my healer DPS rotation so that I focus on said job (healing first and foremost) and executing mechanics. This may come as a surprise to a lot of people here, but a large number of players find boss fights demanding and not because they're lazy idiots. I am fifty eight, my memory isn't what it was and nor are my hands. I am also directionally challenged and have been all my life, by which I mean I don't know my left from my right without a great deal of thought, and I become lost very easily IRL as well as in game.

I'm not demanding SE make Savage or Ultimate easy so that I can do it, I accept it's above what I accomplish until I massively outgear it. Please don't ask for something I CAN accomplish - to DPS as a healer in regular duties - to also go back to being too complex for me

**Billythepancake** · 10-24-2019 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Elladie

The point is, optimal play IS that important to a lot of people, even if they aren't that skilled a player themselves. Currently I'm comfortable with DPS as a healer even in Eden4 which, for me, is a duty that needs a lot of concentration to deal with mechanics. If you increase complexity of my DPS rotation, something is going to give. I will struggle to learn the next new fight because I'll be worrying about being judged for non-optimal play ( how many DPS or get kicked posts have we seen right here?) and I'll end up losing my confidence and going back to doing no content that involves other people.

I am not asking for carries, I am asking for basic content to be doable by all players as long as they take the time to learn their job and the mechanics of the duty. So I'm also asking that unnecessary complexity not be added to my healer DPS rotation so that I focus on said job (healing first and foremost) and executing mechanics. This may come as a surprise to a lot of people here, but a large number of players find boss fights demanding and not because they're lazy idiots. I am fifty eight, my memory isn't what it was and nor are my hands. I am also directionally challenged and have been all my life, by which I mean I don't know my left from my right without a great deal of thought, and I become lost very easily IRL as well as in game.

I'm not demanding SE make Savage or Ultimate easy so that I can do it, I accept it's above what I accomplish until I massively outgear it. Please don't ask for something I CAN accomplish - to DPS as a healer in regular duties - to also go back to being too complex for me

Then what about those that DO enjoy complexity on their healer? Should they be left to rot? I don't think 1 healer being a simple to pick up healer is an issue at all, but for those who want complexity in what they do as a healer, and don't want to give themselves carpal tunnel (looking at you AST), they have nowhere to go. This is where compromise comes in, maybe if they do make a 4th healer best expac, which I have my doubts, but if they do, then have 2 simple to pick up healers and 2 complex ones, but it's not fair to us, right now, that do enjoy complexity that we're forced to either not play the role we enjoy,or forced to just deal with not liking it because they ALL have to be simple.

**Crushnight** · 10-24-2019 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Elladie

The point is, optimal play IS that important to a lot of people, even if they aren't that skilled a player themselves. Currently I'm comfortable with DPS as a healer even in Eden4 which, for me, is a duty that needs a lot of concentration to deal with mechanics. If you increase complexity of my DPS rotation, something is going to give. I will struggle to learn the next new fight because I'll be worrying about being judged for non-optimal play ( how many DPS or get kicked posts have we seen right here?) and I'll end up losing my confidence and going back to doing no content that involves other people.

I am not asking for carries, I am asking for basic content to be doable by all players as long as they take the time to learn their job and the mechanics of the duty. So I'm also asking that unnecessary complexity not be added to my healer DPS rotation so that I focus on said job (healing first and foremost) and executing mechanics. This may come as a surprise to a lot of people here, but a large number of players find boss fights demanding and not because they're lazy idiots. I am fifty eight, my memory isn't what it was and nor are my hands. I am also directionally challenged and have been all my life, by which I mean I don't know my left from my right without a great deal of thought, and I become lost very easily IRL as well as in game.

I'm not demanding SE make Savage or Ultimate easy so that I can do it, I accept it's above what I accomplish until I massively outgear it. Please don't ask for something I CAN accomplish - to DPS as a healer in regular duties - to also go back to being too complex for me

So for the people currently unhappy with the 1 DoT, 1 Nuke spam cannot have anything added then gotcha, because no matter what happens if SE tries to please those type of people(myself included) it will add some level of complexity be it extra buffs/debuffs to manage, more DoTs, whatever extra to do during downtime to manage anyone could come up with which will trickle down the vine affecting you and others like you.

So just got to agree to the reduction of anything on healers because that will keep people happy, less to do after all, not like tanks wish they had a greater impact in content like tank specific things but healers should just be grateful that they get gutted, should be happy they were made unhappy by the out of nowhere changes

**CrimsonGunner** · 10-24-2019 02:59 AM

why are you all stuck on this retarded mindset that what we just ask for a simple "add us more damage skill buttons and nothing else" and also being scared shit from that.
its about making the healers downtime fun and adding dps skills isn't the only way to do it,we want more flavor in the classes and more meanings,so get out of that fear that if you press more then 1 button it will ruin everything and kill you.

people ask for having their class fun and meaningful not being a snooze fest and having a kit that fit a mindless bot.
there is no depth to the kits and they are all identical,one class being simple is fine but all 3 being identical and especially have the other 2 with 0 depth is not ok with me.

SCH is a summoner support class with arcanist roots, people who played it found it fun having pets to use especially more then 1.
would it be that bad to have scholar maybe keep his arcanist kit or just keep carbuncle that badly if they gutted out eos and selene like that and if implemented right it wont even add buttons.
SCH concept is being a tactical support pet class,it was meant to be a bit more challenging then the other healers so having a slightly more tactical aspect like more then 1 dots or having an engaging pet interactions like having more then 1 pet with different skills and a bit of swapping actions would kill you that badly?

AST concept is reading his fate with his cards and applying various buffs to his members, even with the oversimplified card system, would it had been that hard to redesign the cards that they will have different buffs and each would feel good to use in some way instead of all of them being the same buff and especially a low damage one at that.and if you find it too difficult to comprehend then how about just change divination to be more meaningful with the different seals. AST was not only for those who like to give different buffs, it also was meant for those who like some sort of RNG mechanic to it, you still have that RNG but would it kill you so much to have buff diversity to it as well.

there need to be a different in them ,in their play style and most importantly there need to be depth(meaning) you play them especially during downtime.

trying to play optimaly is fine but gutting identities and excusing it for the sake of optimal play is just wrong.
if complexity in a healers scares you that much,just play the simpler healer job among them(a.k.a WHM) and drop the other 2 ,there is a reason why there are 3 different healers or at least should be after all.

**Maeka** · 10-24-2019 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

why are you all stuck on this retarded mindset that what we just ask for a simple "add us more damage skill buttons and nothing else" and also being scared shit from that.
its about making the healers downtime fun and adding dps skills isn't the only way to do it,we want more flavor in the classes and more meanings,so get out of that fear that if you press more then 1 button it will ruin everything and kill you.

Because a lot of people whoa re going on and on about healers being "boring" ask for "more DPS buttons" and "I don't want to use the same 1 damage and 1 dot button over and over again" which means they want an actual DPS rotation.

The rest of us who just want to heal and throw a little damage when we get the chance to, don't want a DPS Rotation that is going to be broken up constantly by the need to keep people alive, nor do I want to be dropping dead when somebody else is playing the healer and they are focusing too heavily on the rotation.... like.... "I know the tank is 30% health but I am 1 button away from finishing this rotation!" and the tank drops dead before he can squeeze that last button out and THEN cast a heal.

people ask for having their class fun and meaningful not being a snooze fest and having a kit that fit a mindless bot.
there is no depth to the kits and they are all identical,one class being simple is fine but all 3 being identical and especially have the other 2 with 0 depth is not ok with me.

They tried having the playstyles more varied in Stormblood and it led to severe job discrepancy. Everybody laughed at WHM in Stormblood, and AST reigned king because of the ridiculous buffs.

SCH is a summoner support class with arcanist roots, people who played it found it fun having pets to use especially more then 1.
would it be that bad to have scholar maybe keep his arcanist kit or just keep carbuncle that badly if they gutted out eos and selene like that and if implemented right it wont even add buttons.

Why do you want Carbuncle as a healer? What purpose would that actually solve? Does it really matter which pet you have out? That doesn't change your gameplay at all.

SCH concept is being a tactical support pet class,it was meant to be a bit more challenging then the other healers so having a slightly more tactical aspect like more then 1 dots or having an engaging pet interactions like having more then 1 pet with different skills and a bit of swapping actions would kill you that badly?

You point out to Yoshi-P or any other dev saying that SCH is "meant to be a bit more challenging than the other healers". Go ahead, I'm waiting.

AST concept is reading his fate with his cards and applying various buffs to his members, even with the oversimplified card system, would it had been that hard to redesign the cards that they will have different buffs and each would feel good to use in some way instead of all of them being the same buff and especially a low damage one at that.and if you find it too difficult to comprehend then how about just change divination to be more meaningful with the different seals. AST was not only for those who like to give different buffs, it also was meant for those who like some sort of RNG mechanic to it, you still have that RNG but would it kill you so much to have buff diversity to it as well.

The old AST cards were just too powerful. Everybody "had to have" these buffs, and AST was asked for again and again, and there were times that I Q'd up as WHM and they go "meh no buffs" just because I'm a WHM and not an AST. It was clear we had a problem with AST being too OP. So they decided to tone the buffs down, and instead of the different cards being different buffs, they made it so you had to get 3 different types of cards for the best Divination.

there need to be a different in them ,in their play style and most importantly there need to be depth(meaning) you play them especially during downtime.

So basically you're asking for more buttons to push while not healing, which is..... exactly what the people arguing against this DON'T want.

trying to play optimaly is fine but gutting identities and excusing it for the sake of optimal play is just wrong.
if complexity in a healers scares you that much,just play the simpler healer job among them(a.k.a WHM) and drop the other 2 ,there is a reason why there are 3 different healers or at least should be after all.

Yeah, until you show up in a group and you get kicked just for being a WHM, or people grumble and look at you like you're playing the wrong job, and/or you wanna be a WHM in manual group finder and nobody will invite you because there are ASTs and SCHs listed at the same time.

**CrimsonGunner** · 10-24-2019 04:02 AM