Getting ready for them NOT to mention scholar in the live letter

[Mortex]

I just don’t get why they would change the healer in one Addon so radical and call it a day and don’t do anything against it. When I think about healer I don’t want too think that all I do now for dmg is too press 1 and 2 every 30 seconds, and you start that as whm from around lvl 7 I think. From 7 to 80 there is no change as a healer in the way you do solo quests. And then the balance and quality of life problems, they took away the fairy ability hotbar and forced sch to cast the spells ur self, they changed the Astro card system to the most boring thing ever. The only healer that feels decent is whm just because it whas trash in stormblood ( lily system whas bad and Astro did all they did the same if not better at the end of the addon) and they just made improvements and fixed the Lily’s. And ofc im angry I play this game since arr and before it whas good and what they do with the healers back to then is a massacre. Healer are already the worst participants in this game. You are forced to heal stupid actions and tanks that don’t use cds and people that die 24/7 on mechanics and then get blamed when you are out of mana and can’t heal anymore after 8 deaths. Atleast let the job be a fun experience with options that we have.

[nalol]

The problem with Healers is they r like, and im just using it as an example not to start anything, Brexit.
Everyone has their own idea of what it means to heal, and noone agrees whats best. Theres ppl that just like to heal, theres dps who want easy queues so play healer but want to dps, theres ppl who like supporting, ppl who think dps is just for 'filling' and those that could care less if ppl die around them.

because 1. it's SE to define what healing is for them and make it happen with kit AND fights

and also ... more than how u play healer, is lvl of play. compared to DPS, healer is a class that changes a lot when undergeared and overgeared. and while undergeared u usually heal a lot more, while overgeared u start to need less healing so more dps/support ... and that's when it gets boring. because our dps kit is boring.

so u have to design healer with different levels of play to make it fun all the time .. and it's harder

[Brightamethyst]

because 1. it's SE to define what healing is for them and make it happen with kit AND fights

and also ... more than how u play healer, is lvl of play. compared to DPS, healer is a class that changes a lot when undergeared and overgeared. and while undergeared u usually heal a lot more, while overgeared u start to need less healing so more dps/support ... and that's when it gets boring. because our dps kit is boring.

so u have to design healer with different levels of play to make it fun all the time .. and it's harder

Exactly. Healing is dynamic in a way that DPS and tanking aren't. The DPS rotations don't change whether you're i420 or i470. Neither do tanks rotation (aside from maybe using fewer CDs.) Healing however can be drastically different depending on the gear levels of both you and the party. They need to balance the fun and challenge for both underleveled players scrambling to heal, and overleveled players who who are bored out of their minds. There's no one change that will magically fix all the healer issues.

[CrimsonGunner]

i cant write all my frustration about how healers feels right now without getting to the writing limits.

so i will try to sum it up.

all 3 are identical, healing and dps aspects of their kits are the same.
healing downtime could have been used for some card/pet interactions or having some sort of utilizing each healer unique aspect for buffing/debuffing or even having some sort of rotation/contribute for their dps but sadly there isn't any (AST cards are literally the same card with 6 different colors and have 0 card gameplay, SCH has 0 pet interactions other then telling the fairy to heal making her a healing bot and white mage has literally nothing).

and as i said before all 3 job kits are identical but also the kit is so gutted with 0 depth and oversimplify that the kit fits an actual bot player rather then a human player cause i cant find 1 human being that would prefer to press the same 1 button over and over the entire time he is playing a game especially one he is paying money for.

and all of those changes were done by SE for the sake of balancing healers in raids.

[Sparkthor]

The fact is when healer got a massive dps kit a large portion of them tends to extend it beyond the limit. I don't think, back in HW, scholar who spend all instance in Cleric Stance, using all it's offensive spells (bio, bio II, miasma, shadow flare and broil) with no heal was something healthy for the game (like tanking is offence stance in SB).

I can agree in ShB healer got the bare minimum dps kit, but how make sure what if they give a more ellaborate kit we will not encounter so many green dps ? I really wonder how give enough complexity without tempting healer to push dps too much.

[Saefinn]

The fact is when healer got a massive dps kit a large portion of them tends to extend it beyond the limit. I don't think, back in HW, scholar who spend all instance in Cleric Stance, using all it's offensive spells (bio, bio II, miasma, shadow flare and broil) with no heal was something healthy for the game (like tanking is offence stance in SB).

I can agree in ShB healer got the bare minimum dps kit, but how make sure what if they give a more ellaborate kit we will not encounter so many green dps ? I really wonder how give enough complexity without tempting healer to push dps too much.

I think the healer changes will have worked if the encounter design changed. I don't think the issue is so much that a DPS rotation tempts people into green DPS, as gutting it hasn't solved it either, they've just made it less interesting, but the alternative to boring DPS is doing nothing or being a worse healer. Encounter design and the tools we have to heal means downtime is an issue.

I see 3 answers, which I know I keep preaching

Adjust encounter design so we get better use of our tools
Adjust healer design so that our tools are less effective, so we get better use of them
Accept downtime is a thing and give us something more interesting to fill the gap.

The latter I think is the most beginner friendly but respects the enjoyment of experienced healers and was something we already had. And it also ends up being the laziest option too.

[Crushnight]

I see 3 answers, which I know I keep preaching

Adjust encounter design so we get better use of our tools
Adjust healer design so that our tools are less effective, so we get better use of them
Accept downtime is a thing and give us something more interesting to fill the gap.

The latter I think is the most beginner friendly but respects the enjoyment of experienced healers and was something we already had. And it also ends up being the laziest option too.

option 1 can only work going forward as it would be too extensive to sort every encounter that is already implemented.

option 2 is what they did for ShB and nothing changed except completely making benefic/cure 1 nigh useless now.

option 3 is something they seemingly do not want to accept considering how many times they say "we do not account for healer dps" (which is bull giving enrage timers especially for ultimates)

Until the devs finally see how healers are actually played by the community rather than their perception of how healers are played nothing is likely to change and will continue to alienate the healer role further, the amount of healers i know that say they only heal and gear up for raids only because they cba to deal with the tedium is staggeringly high compared to SB.



As for how things were done in HW specifically scholar, well the fairy was a lot more powerful back then and could keep a tank alive(especially small pulls) and you could get away with it a lot more easily because tanks as well were more self sufficient, war had bloodbath, pld had no aoe dmg skill so it was better for healers to dps and pld to use clemency, Drks had spammable abyssal drain. HW was a very different beast when it came to healers it was the expansion where they built on existing things rather than try to remuddle everything, Ast's dps rotation was 2 DoTs and a spam yet that was considered too complicated come SB >_> this is what the dev team thinks, it may be just 1 button difference but it is a darn sight more interesting than now.

[Saefinn]

Ah I mean with option 2 to make healing overall weaker to cut down downtime, arguably healing isn't weaker in ShB. Except maybe Noct AST, which arguably I think is more the direction I'd see option 2 working, but they are about to patch that.

But on Noct AST I have to do more healing and still have cards to manage and also have to sometimes think about MP management. This is why I'm preferring Noct AST to all other healing options ATM. On the note of MP management, I've wondered if they make it so easy that it feels like an unlimited resource, then what's the point of it?

Option 1 and 2 aren't my ideal answers of course, but are the only ways I think existing design could work, option 3 should be where its at, especially as it doesn't go against the status quo, is friendly with how healers are played and with existing encounter design.

Whilst it's not the direction they seem to want to take, they reversed their decisions on BRD's direction following complaints twice now, so I feel healers should get the same treatment.

[Sloprano]

Ah I mean with option 2 to make healing overall weaker to cut down downtime, arguably healing isn't weaker in ShB. Except maybe Noct AST, which arguably I think is more the direction I'd see option 2 working, but they are about to patch that.

But on Noct AST I have to do more healing and still have cards to manage and also have to sometimes think about MP management. This is why I'm preferring Noct AST to all other healing options ATM. On the note of MP management, I've wondered if they make it so easy that it feels like an unlimited resource, then what's the point of it?

Option 1 and 2 aren't my ideal answers of course, but are the only ways I think existing design could work, option 3 should be where its at, especially as it doesn't go against the status quo, is friendly with how healers are played and with existing encounter design.

Whilst it's not the direction they seem to want to take, they reversed their decisions on BRD's direction following complaints twice now, so I feel healers should get the same treatment.

Like a Spandau, I've noticed I keep repeating myself too. Probably because I find it to be the core of the problems.

Options 1 and 2 you stated is something I have experienced, in this very game: Deep Dungeon denziens that you can't kill fast enough and two spells doom. But this is in random encounters, not something SE could orchestrate with a thousand busy hands counting every second until you need an oGCD. And here trying to be Green DPS gets a tank killed fast and the biggest longing is Fey Caress.

Every time I've forgotten myself and see MP is going into caution I always have Lucid Dreaming ready, it's available so soon it's already like a knock-off 20%-Aetherflow without stacks.

What with tanks seeming tailor-made for pulling until gates, aswell as the assumed changes for 5.1, option 3 would look natural for healers aswell. Instead they seem to have an unnatural worry that if they give healers too much offensive capabilites like Cleric Stance it'll be a gateway drug and before you know it they've removed all healing skills from their hotbars.

[Saefinn]

Like a Spandau, I've noticed I keep repeating myself too. Probably because I find it to be the core of the problems.

Options 1 and 2 you stated is something I have experienced, in this very game: Deep Dungeon denziens that you can't kill fast enough and two spells doom. But this is in random encounters, not something SE could orchestrate with a thousand busy hands counting every second until you need an oGCD. And here trying to be Green DPS gets a tank killed fast and the biggest longing is Fey Caress.

Every time I've forgotten myself and see MP is going into caution I always have Lucid Dreaming ready, it's available so soon it's already like a knock-off 20%-Aetherflow without stacks.

What with tanks seeming tailor-made for pulling until gates, aswell as the assumed changes for 5.1, option 3 would look natural for healers aswell. Instead they seem to have an unnatural worry that if they give healers too much offensive capabilites like Cleric Stance it'll be a gateway drug and before you know it they've removed all healing skills from their hotbars.

The irony I guess is with all of the effective oGCD heals, we could remove some of our healing skills if we wanted and get away with it. Cleric stance would at least put healers who overdo it or screw up in an oh shi moment to suddenly start using more of their healing spells, especially if they don't have time to turn off cleric stance, because heals would be less effective. Sure its a self inflicted difficulty spike, but I always liked that dynamic about cleric stance, there is a penalty to going in ham with your DPS whilst adding 1 extra level of complexity.