NIN in 5.1

[Shurrikhan]

Sorry but I have no idea what you're saying

The feeling is mutual.

The above discussion is about Shadowfang. It had no cooldown. Therefore it cannot have possibly been reduced. The prior discussion was about Bunshin, the cooldown of which has apparently been reduced though I do not have an image or transcript of that section of the LL to quickly share with you.

Where did it say the cooldown got reduced? And I could easily get 8 hits in I think 6 would be better but that's just me

"8 hits" of what? At present, we get about 3 other combos (or 2 combos and a TCJ) per use of Shadowfang, and we apply Shadowfang roughly 2.5 times per minute. 2 of those combos per minute must be used on Armor Crush. Altogether, that leaves us with roughly 7 AE per 3 SF (roughly per 66 to 72 seconds, depending on SkS) or ~6.1-6.4 AE per minute, further reduced by Suiton, Kassatsu, severe clipping in general, or --god forbid-- wasting time on Meisui (for a net ~125 potency loss compared to Raiton).

Similarly, we would get 8 Bunshin hits per use, while that has been reduced to 6.

So... which is it you're talking about? Even just a sliver of specificity would help.

[Vendalwind]

If my statement confused you, I was talking about shadowfang. My apologizze it was poorly worded, I've been traveling and thus only responding on my phone.

I hadn't calculated out the number of Aoelian Edges we got in a minute before, but Im pretty sure its less than that. doing some napkin maths now for it, but I was basically talking about how many GCDs went towards what effectively nerfing of a certain skill (AE)

So if we used to get 8 AE per minute, 2 ACs and ~2.5 Shadow fangs that is a total of (8*3 + 2*3 + 2*2.5) GCDs per minute. 24+6+5 = 35 which shouldn't be possible since we are at 2.1 gcd and clipping some of them with TCJ and three step mudras... So I would guess we were getting 6 per minute (29 GCDs if done with the same math as above.) since clipping, and TCJ will occasionally eat into it some

With Mudra on the GCD AND with it having charges so we dont lose casts we lost .5+.5+1.5 at least every cast and it happens 3X per minute. So thats ~3.57 GCD or one Aeolian lost. If we also include kassatsu (once per minute) thats another 1~.2 GCD lost for a total of ~4.76 at our current speed lost or 1.5 AE

Thus we'd be getting only 4-5 AEs per minute.

Removing shadowfang from the combo gives us back 5 GCDs (at 2.5 shadowfangs per minute, and two GCDs per shadowfang)
Which returns our Aeolian Edge to the break even ~6 GCDS

So my point is: Taking shadowfang out of the combo actually just about perfectly balances the AE losses that mudra's on the GCD will cause.

HUH i hadn't done the math before. Thats actually pretty cool.

[Saber44]

Yes, but not as much as it'd first appear. It'll now do 1000 potency total over melee use (or 1250 when including Ninki generation), down from 1600 (1800), but will generate 40 Ninki, up from 32, and will be available more often. So, yes, you lose 550 potency per press, but you can also press it more often. Since now only 150% more powerful than Bhav (down from 210%), it's a nerf, but that added frequency should keep that nerf slight.

This is what I was replying to

[Saber44]

The feeling is mutual.

The above discussion is about Shadowfang. It had no cooldown. Therefore it cannot have possibly been reduced. The prior discussion was about Bunshin, the cooldown of which has apparently been reduced though I do not have an image or transcript of that section of the LL to quickly share with you.


"8 hits" of what? At present, we get about 3 other combos (or 2 combos and a TCJ) per use of Shadowfang, and we apply Shadowfang roughly 2.5 times per minute. 2 of those combos per minute must be used on Armor Crush. Altogether, that leaves us with roughly 7 AE per 3 SF (roughly per 66 to 72 seconds, depending on SkS) or ~6.1-6.4 AE per minute, further reduced by Suiton, Kassatsu, severe clipping in general, or --god forbid-- wasting time on Meisui (for a net ~125 potency loss compared to Raiton).

Similarly, we would get 8 Bunshin hits per use, while that has been reduced to 6.

So... which is it you're talking about? Even just a sliver of specificity would help.

The things I said had nothing to do with shadow fang but bunshin

[wereotter]

Where did it say the cooldown got reduced? And I could easily get 8 hits in I think 6 would be better but that's just me

Why are you stacking so much skill speed as to get 8 GCDs done within 15 seconds? Your GCD would have to be 1.86 seconds to do that.

The change to Bunshin may mean one less GCD being executed under its duration, but now you also won't have to delay executing ninjutsu because you're using Bunshin.

[Tex_Mex]

I'm going to try and keep an open mind. The changes are a bit extreme IMO, and I will be heavily dissatisfied if the APM drops too much, but who knows, maybe it will surprise me.

[Shurrikhan]

Why are you stacking so much skill speed as to get 8 GCDs done within 15 seconds? Your GCD would have to be 1.86 seconds to do that.

The change to Bunshin may mean one less GCD being executed under its duration, but now you also won't have to delay executing ninjutsu because you're using Bunshin.

Keep in mind that you technically only need 7.01 GCDs (and 600 ms plus twice your ping minus the delay between activating the Bunshin skill and generating the Bunshin effect) in the window to benefit across 8 GCDs. If Bunshin is used in the final oGCD gap before a weaponskill, and applies its duration and the end of its animation, you'd need only a 2.11 GCD or less to get 8 hits in at 50 ms ping. That requires, what, 26 SkS? 128 at worst?

[Kuwago]

maybe they instead made katon and that useless ice spell the upgraded versions permanently. which is huge dps increase imo and would give kassatsu it's crit ninjutsu jutsu back?

Please this, It's so satisfying to see my Ninjustu's to crit, I always wondered why it wasn't just a straight upgrade and needed to use Kassatsu for it. I am going to miss the old Kassatsu since I loved spamming my justus.

[SamSmoot]

Might get his meta spot back if TA extended duration fits burstwindows better or is able to extend the burst phase at all... if sam won't pull 20k now x'D

It could also mean that other players have more time to notice that TA is up and start their heavy hitting before it's gone.

[Terkhev]

Those changes are pretty much all I wanted and even more. I have to admit I had pretty high hopes and naturally expected to be disappointed.
Now my only worry is that it all aligns so well and nice that it's going to be even more painfull when I mass my rotation because of death, phase change etc lol