How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[BarretOblivion]

Nah. WAR's got an extra cooldown and Equilibrium. That is its edge over PLD. They should be equal in damage, though.

Nobody cares about raw when the only tank busters where its useful right off the bat that PLD can't shelltron are two fights where they hallowed ground right off the bat if they are tanking. 3% difference is nothing Nice try.
Equilibrium... doesn't really matter. Its nice, but not necessary nor essential for a PLD nor any tank really.

[YusiKha]

Nobody cares about raw when the only tank busters where its useful right off the bat that PLD can't shelltron are two fights where they hallowed ground right off the bat if they are tanking. 3% difference is nothing Nice try.
Equilibrium... doesn't really matter. Its nice, but not necessary nor essential for a PLD nor any tank really.

Raw/Shelltron, Vengeance/Sentinel, Thrill/???.
Don't knock Equilibrium either, it's about as strong as Excogitation and helping out your healers is great.
Shake It Off is also strong as heck and scales linearly with mitigation unlike Passage, Heart, and Missionary.

[BarretOblivion]

Raw/Shelltron, Vengeance/Sentinel, Thrill/???.
Don't knock Equilibrium either, it's about as strong as Excogitation and helping out your healers is great.
Shake It Off is also strong as heck and scales linearly with mitigation unlike Passage, Heart, and Missionary.

Or, you could just mitigate damage. A self heal on Equil isn't as much as an excog. Just because its cure potency is the same doesn't mean what its scaling off is the same. Sure, it might be a half heal if you can get a crit, but you shouldn't need to self heal at all (except for holmganging). Good healers plan out each heal in a fight to a T so soaking up 2/3 auto attacks every minute isn't a big deal in the long run.
Shake it off is the worst of the shared tank cooldowns. The problem with it is what it scales off of is actually worse than Divine Veil (seriously you don't ever really use Passage as a PLD except for free mitigation when you can hit the boss and if your group needs a desperate additional mitigation). Divine Veil scales 10% baised off of the tank that used it (PLD) while Shake it off can scale higher with an additional 2% for each cooldown you burn buuuut.... it scales off of each character individually of their HP and not the Tank that uses it. Which means healers/DPS are going to get weaker shields baised off HP compared to the tanks, while PLD its just a linear strong shield with the draw back being they don't get a shield (which you are a tank, you shouldn't need one or a healer can give you a single target one if you need it).

When it comes to Heart/Missionary they are the best overall. Its a flat 10% damage mitigated from the source for everyone for magical damage (which all Raid Wide AoE is). The only times are these bad is when the game uses % baised damage like Gravity from E1S. You have to burn more and take more time to use a good shake it off than the other tanks, its minor, but it does add up to another weakness WAR has.

[ForteNightshade]

Raw/Shelltron, Vengeance/Sentinel, Thrill/???.
Don't knock Equilibrium either, it's about as strong as Excogitation and helping out your healers is great.
Shake It Off is also strong as heck and scales linearly with mitigation unlike Passage, Heart, and Missionary.

Thrill and Equilibrium are certainly nice abilities. No one will deny that. But they're more buffers than anything else. Another factor to consider is Paladin only uses its gauge for Shelltron and Cover, thus more than making up for it lacking Thrill. The issue with Warrior right now is it simply doesn't excel at anything outside very limited HP recovery. And even that's only if you discount Clemency. In terms of mitigation, Off Tanking and damage, all three tanks pull ahead of it on one or multiple categories.. Now if it made up for that with a cool rotation and flare ala Dancer, you could maybe get away with it. Instead, we got Nascent Flash and a flashier version of Inner Beast.

[YusiKha]

snip

I had a quick run-through of logs to get the values, and it showed Excog and Equilibrium both healing ~33k on average, their cure potencies are different (1200 vs 800).
What do you mean 'you shouldn't need to self heal at all'? healer plans include all of your skills as well and if you can trade an Excog/Lustrate for an Energy Drain, or a GCD heal for a Glare/Broil, then you've just gained some free damage, no matter how small.
Divine Veil is stronger than Shake, I'll give you that.
But Shake it Off is 12% mitigation raw, and that's on magical as well as physical damage. That is straight up better than Missionary and Heart. On top of that, since it's a shield and not %mitigation, it scales linearly with extra cooldowns. Reprisal + Heart = 100%*0.9^2 = 81% So that Heart is actually only 9%.
On top of Shake being stronger at base you can also buff it with your paltry 25s Raw Intuition, so it's basically always 14%. When used with even 1 other tool it's instantly stronger than Passage. On a shorter cooldown. Without losing any uptime.

snip

Shelltron's counterpart is Raw Intuition, not Thrill, as they're on approximately the same cooldown (22s vs 25s) and can be used instead to mitigate for an ally (Intervention vs Nascent Flash). People don't use cover because you could just tank swap and Intervention.
Thrill isn't a buffer, it's a 20% shield with weird wording + healing buff (all heals, not just GCDs). Thrill is a 2nd, better, Rampart, with the same advantage as Shake when it comes to mitigation stacking.

WAR boasts better self-mitigation than PLD
Better raidwide mitigation than DRK and GNB
It only doesn't excel at an OT-role, but even then with all the MT+OT hitting skills (E2 Busters, E3 Autos) Nascent's self+ally heal is pulling double-duties. And the heal might even be stronger than the flat% mitigation others provide

WAR is a middle-of-the-road tank. A jack of all trades, which isn't a bad thing.

[Shurrikhan]

I had a quick run-through of logs to get the values, and it showed Excog and Equilibrium both healing ~33k on average, their cure potencies are different (1200 vs 800).

They're two different currencies. 800 healer/caster/ranged potency is 1040 melee/tank potency. The majority of jobs have an innate 30% increase to damage and healing dealt. Tanks and melee do not. You cannot directly compare their potencies.

I'll have to check also if Equilibrium is affected by Assylum and the like...

(Yes, I'm aware that that largely defeats the point of using standard potencies if we have to not only compare them against buffs, but also base traits and roles, but... that's the direction they decided to go with as of SB. *Shrug*)

[Reynhart]

(Yes, I'm aware that that largely defeats the point of using standard potencies if we have to not only compare them against buffs, but also base traits and roles, but... that's the direction they decided to go with as of SB. *Shrug*)

"Maim and Mend" has been a thing since A Realm Reborn.

[Shurrikhan]

"Maim and Mend" has been a thing since A Realm Reborn.

Taking melee and tanks off of Increased Action Damage I/II/III has only been a thing since ARR. Same with capping Ranged at IAD2.

It used to be everyone gets a flat +30%, thus potencies were even across the board (NIN via 20% on DB and 10% on poisons by the same level the rest hit 30% base).

Now, Casters and healers get +30%, Ranged get +20%, and tanks and melee get +0%.

...Why? Why not just change the potencies themselves and save us the hassle of 3 currencies?

[ForteNightshade]

Shelltron's counterpart is Raw Intuition, not Thrill, as they're on approximately the same cooldown (22s vs 25s) and can be used instead to mitigate for an ally (Intervention vs Nascent Flash). People don't use cover because you could just tank swap and Intervention.
Thrill isn't a buffer, it's a 20% shield with weird wording + healing buff (all heals, not just GCDs). Thrill is a 2nd, better, Rampart, with the same advantage as Shake when it comes to mitigation stacking.

WAR boasts better self-mitigation than PLD
Better raidwide mitigation than DRK and GNB
It only doesn't excel at an OT-role, but even then with all the MT+OT hitting skills (E2 Busters, E3 Autos) Nascent's self+ally heal is pulling double-duties. And the heal might even be stronger than the flat% mitigation others provide

WAR is a middle-of-the-road tank. A jack of all trades, which isn't a bad thing.

I'm aware. However, I wasn't comparing them but merely pointing out due to how Shelltron works and how quickly Paladin generates Oath gauge, you'll have more than enough uses of Shelltron to compensate for lacking a Thrill equivalent. You're also giving Nascent Flash far too much credit. It's value is heavily reliant on Warrior having a burst. Sure, it's a nice buffer when IR is up. But tank mechanics aren't necessarily going to align with that. More often than not, it's just there, especially considering how weak auto attacks are this tier.

Except the probably with being in the middle road is... nothing calls for the very few advantages Warrior has because the other three tanks do it better. They also offer more advantages than disadvantages, which is the problem. I will say it's nowhere near the balance issue other roles have. But it is worth acknowledging, especially when you factor in how badly Warrior is punished on the damage side of things compared to the other three tanks.