How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[CommanderNarwhal]

My feeling is that tank damage is fine but healer damage is to high, they're doing about the same in the case of whitemage or slightly less damage than tanks where I would prefer if they accounted for a lower percent of the total raid DPS

[Nedkel]

Tanks contribution dropped by another 1 percent point after massive DPS buffs.

Here ya go, the dps overbuffing season has begin.

[J-Reyno]

Healers bring far too much utility to be matching and even exceeding tanks in damage contribution, who do practically nothing BUT deal damage. It's extremely unsatisfying to manage an actual dps rotation only to have a healer deal more damage than you.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...=Any&bracket=2

Dark Knight is literally rock bottom in raid dps, which is ridiculous. There is a reason other games don't have tanks dealing less damage than healers. It's not at all balanced and this will hurt the game longterm.

[BarretOblivion]

Healers bring far too much utility to be matching and even exceeding tanks in damage contribution, who do practically nothing BUT deal damage. It's extremely unsatisfying to manage an actual dps rotation only to have a healer deal more damage than you.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...=Any&bracket=2

Dark Knight is literally rock bottom in raid dps, which is ridiculous. There is a reason other games don't have tanks dealing less damage than healers. It's not at all balanced and this will hurt the game longterm.

This ^^^ plus remember, healers DPS 'rotations' are even worse than Tank rotations. Sorry, but I should not see a healer be down my neck when I am having nearly 100% uptime on a boss as a Tank.

[Deceptus]

This ^^^ plus remember, healers DPS 'rotations' are even worse than Tank rotations. Sorry, but I should not see a healer be down my neck when I am having nearly 100% uptime on a boss as a Tank.

Statements like this are exactly why SE doesn't want players using a parser. You think that just because you are a tank you are entitled to higher dps than a healer in every single case including extreme fringe occurrences which is the only time a healer should out DPS a tank.

[BarretOblivion]

Statements like this are exactly why SE doesn't want players using a parser. You think that just because you are a tank you are entitled to higher dps than a healer in every single case including extreme fringe occurrences which is the only time a healer should out DPS a tank.

Yes, because 95% of the time or more I am DPSing, healers can't DPS all the time they just can't they have their role responsiblilities that override thier offense. Tanks we use OGCDs so we can weave those and not lose offensive GCDs all the time while healers can't necessarily do it all the time. Its simple logic.

[Nedkel]

Healers bring far too much utility to be matching and even exceeding tanks in damage contribution, who do practically nothing BUT deal damage. It's extremely unsatisfying to manage an actual dps rotation only to have a healer deal more damage than you.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...=Any&bracket=2

Dark Knight is literally rock bottom in raid dps, which is ridiculous. There is a reason other games don't have tanks dealing less damage than healers. It's not at all balanced and this will hurt the game longterm.

If you change it to "max" you could see how big 100% pure dps healer has over 100% dps tank this is ridiculous.

[Risvertasashi]

Because there is one big difference between pressing 3 buttons all the time and 10-13 buttons.
Also it is harder to be melee than ranged you cant just stick to the target in melee range for the entire raid and forget about aoes, even tanks cannot do that, casters have it easier, they dont have to line up their rotation with the mechanic like healers who just spam same spells without second thought.
And still healers are able to dish out more damage than tanks for some reason if they 100% on pure dps.

It's more complex to maximize damage GCDs as a healer than as a tank.

Healers have no real way to deal with movement.

Healers by default rarely get to be "100% pure dps".

Kabooa said it very well. Tanks do not have to choose whether they should spend GCDs on abilities that do no damage, so tanks have an easier time of it. Saying healers only have 3 buttons is ignoring the vast majority of their kits, and important decisions that have to be made.

If you change it to "max" you could see how big 100% pure dps healer has over 100% dps tank this is ridiculous.

No, it's not. With mitigation and damage stances being removed, tanks get to DPS without making sacrifices (technically there's the odd ability like Clemency, but raid tanks tend to refuse to use those anyways), while also having great utility in that they don't really have cast times (and the exception, Paladin, casts quickly) and have mobility, ie gap closers. Healers have to sacrifice to do their DPS, deal with cast times, and do not get any mobility assists.

This is why, the vast majority of the time, healers don't actually outdamage tanks. Looking at parses specifically setup where one healer is solo healing is not an accurate representation.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Kabooa said it very well. Tanks do not have to choose whether they should spend GCDs on abilities that do no damage, so tanks have an easier time of it. Saying healers only have 3 buttons is ignoring the vast majority of their kits, and important decisions that have to be made.

so basically, you are saying healers should be able to spend less time hitting the boss than a tank and still do equal to or more damage than a tank, sounds like BS to me.

[Shurrikhan]

so basically, you are saying healers should be able to spend less time hitting the boss than a tank and still do equal to or more damage than a tank, sounds like BS to me.

No, he's saying for the two to be remotely competitive, it may be beneficial for a healer to have a slight lead over a tank in a perfect 100% uptime situation, given how much of their uptime will be wasted.

Apart from perhaps the recently overbuffed AST, tank-crushing healer parses involve virtually no healing; that's the only reason they're so ahead in any individual top-10 parse.

You'd be much better off looking at combined tank damage vs. combined healer damage, where you can more clearly see that the imbalance is nearer to some 200 dps in a perfectly healing-GCD-trimmed fight. That's enough for me to say tanks should probably have a bit more damage, but only a bit.