do you think this Wall to Wall pulling (in roulettes)is hurting the healer population

[Nomuno]

The fact is that tanking is much a harder role than many may think.

I'm not sure we are playing the same game. Tanking in this game is NOT hard. Raids are scripted (nothing random to adapt to), Dungeons / Bosses are the same. There is NO difficulty in tanking within XIV. Its just simple buster coming use CD, aoe coming shield pt etc etc.

[Shalan]

This is the crap I don't get.

WHY ROLL A GD HEALER IF YOU WANT TO DPS. It can be said for any job. Why the hell would you main a healer if you didn't have the intentions to be a healer? Play a different job if you don't want to heal.

We do intend to heal, it's just that healing isn't what we wind up spending the majority of our time doing as a result of this game's design. Most fights are scripted/have predictable damage and both the tanks and ourselves are so loaded with OGCD mitigation and healing that it's very common to spend upwards of 70% of any dungeon/encounter doing DPS. Even when we do wall to wall pulls we can still spend the majority of our time DPSing. If a tank isn't doing wall to wall pulls sometimes we don't even have to heal at all (beyond one or two OGCDs).

Just take a look at the average ability count cast for this SCH's dungeon run, and realize this was before everyone was overgeared to hell and back from doing Eden.

Average SCH dungeon gameplay at 80:



This job is so boring to play I loathe running my experts each week.

That's two abilities forming more than half of all spells cast in the dungeon. Imagine if another job was in this state, spamming nothing but one or two buttons all dungeon.

Despite this being the way the game has worked for years, SE continues to dumb down and remove our DPS abilities, making the role more and more boring for us. Their incompetence or unwillingness to see the reality of this role's situation is driving people away, and they've repeatedly shown misunderstanding of how healers play at such a fundamental level it's mind boggling.

[MPNZ]

This is the crap I don't get.

WHY ROLL A GD HEALER IF YOU WANT TO DPS. It can be said for any job. Why the hell would you main a healer if you didn't have the intentions to be a healer? Play a different job if you don't want to heal.

Because sch dots were a mix of enfeeblement and damage which helped mitigate damage, from what I remember, so it literally helped reduce incoming damage, which is what blind does. It makes it so the enemy misses more often. Also, early level dungeons can be like a reverse stone vigil experience so it goes from "OMG, I'm going to rest for a few hours because that was so exhausting" to "that was so boring I'm going do something else for a few hours". Also, there are way better ways than turning the whole experience into cow-clicker or into an MMO version of FF all of the Bravest.

Oh, and FYI: the issues of bow-mage were not acceptable for similar core reasons as AST and SCH are atm. And, their concerns are just as valid despite detractors

...

Especially, with a good party. So much of problematic tnk damage is literally from eating aoes or being below minimum ilv. It can be like night and day just by having them move out of aoes

[Nomuno]

We do intend to heal, it's just that healing isn't what we wind up spending the majority of our time doing as a result of this game's design. Most fights are scripted/have predictable damage and both the tanks and ourselves are so loaded with OGCD mitigation and healing that it's very common to spend upwards of 70% of any dungeon/encounter doing DPS. Even when we do wall to wall pulls we can still spend the majority of our time DPSing. If a tank isn't doing wall to wall pulls sometimes we don't even have to heal at all (beyond one or two OGCDs).

Trust me I know what the current state of healers are in this game. But my point still stands. You're a healer, not a dps. Simply complaining that content isn't engaging enough (or like the OP saying content is too hard as one) The problem is the casualness of this game... they made dungeons a snoozefest and THAT is why you broil/aow/holy/whateverthehellastrosdo for days in the dungeons. Another thing that could/should be done is healers should have more utility. If you give healers more stuff to do that is engaging with the party I think it would fix a lot of 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 that's going on. (buffs, stuff to esuna etc) there are plenty of options.


Your casting is not much different than a bard (sure you are casting AoW a crap ton but your lack of healing is not because of a lack of ability) your lack of healing is from a lack of difficulty.


Either way, I don't think healers should be dps focused anyways, I'd rather you be able to buff everyone to boost an actual dps. That's just my thoughts


p.s. you have so many CD's you could be going through in dungeons on a regular basis from looking at these casts btw. You could be doing WAY more, you just choose not too...

[Rilifane]

This is the crap I don't get.

WHY ROLL A GD HEALER IF YOU WANT TO DPS. It can be said for any job. Why the hell would you main a healer if you didn't have the intentions to be a healer? Play a different job if you don't want to heal.

Are you not reading what people write? They WANT to heal. Nobody said they don't want to heal. But they CAN'T because there just isn't enough to heal. If everyone is full HP or at least safe, what am I to do? Continue heal spam just so I was healing? Pick my nose?
The problem is, that there isn't enough to heal.
On my very first E1S kill on WHM, my first raid ever when I was insecure and didn't know the fight safe for a video guide before getting thrown into it, over 50% of my casts were Dia and Glare. I was actually extremely careful with dpsing because I didn't know the fight well enough. And I still spent over half my time dpsing while healing a good chunk more than my co healer. Not because he was bad but because there wasn't more to do.

Which is why I switched to dps and won't touch healer unless stricly neccessary. Not because I prefer dpsing over healing but because if I spent the majority of my time dpsing, I want it to feel varied, rewarding and engaging.
Spenting over half my time pushing exactly two buttons isn't rewarding or engaging, it's boring and I despise it.

[Liam_Harper]

Either way, I don't think healers should be dps focused anyways, I'd rather you be able to buff everyone to boost an actual dps. That's just my thoughts

There's always going to be content you overgear or that you get a really good group for that takes little damage. If this happens and all you have are buffs as filler, what do you do when everyone is topped off and buffed? Spam overwrite your buffs or twiddle your thumbs?

Dps as a healer works fine for a filler because it's always useful, the issue is it's not a filler in most cases, it's the bulk of our casts and it's far too simple. There needs to be more damage going out even in easier content, our heal toolkit is just too good, particularly aoe and ogcd heal and we could do with an actual dps toolkit rather than 1-2 buttons so our filler time is actually engaging.

[Nomuno]

Are you not reading what people write? They WANT to heal. Nobody said they don't want to heal. But they CAN'T because there just isn't enough to heal. If everyone is full HP or at least safe, what am I to do? Continue heal spam just so I was healing? Pick my nose?
The problem is, that there isn't enough to heal.
On my very first E1S kill on WHM, my first raid ever when I was insecure and didn't know the fight safe for a video guide before getting thrown into it, over 50% of my casts were Dia and Glare. I was actually extremely careful with dpsing because I didn't know the fight well enough. And I still spent over half my time dpsing while healing a good chunk more than my co healer. Not because he was bad but because there wasn't more to do.

Which is why I switched to dps and won't touch healer unless stricly neccessary. Not because I prefer dpsing over healing but because if I spent the majority of my time dpsing, I want it to feel varied, rewarding and engaging.
Spenting over half my time pushing exactly two buttons isn't rewarding or engaging, it's boring and I despise it.

I read everything..... its the same crap from SB, and HW before that, and ARR before that. No matter how they change it, its never good enough because healers have this dillusion that they should be a dps. Its not class design... its CONTENT DESIGN. The same people clamoring "did you even read? o.O" are the same damn people who AREN'T READING. You want to heal more? THEN TELL ALL THE SNOWFLAKES TO STOP MAKING THIS GAME SO DAMN EASY


That's the problem. Then what happens is you get lazy arse healers, who think the game is a cakewalk going into savage. THEN get mad when they get facerolled by content they have no idea how to play. THEN come in here complaining that there is no healers in content because its hard. HUH? are YOU actually reading? Game design is why you aren't healing...something people need to acknowledge.

[MPNZ]

Trust me I know what the current state of healers are in this game. But my point still stands. You're a healer, not a dps. Simply complaining that content isn't engaging enough (or like the OP saying content is too hard as one) The problem is the casualness of this game... they made dungeons a snoozefest and THAT is why you broil/aow/holy/whateverthehellastrosdo for days in the dungeons. Another thing that could/should be done is healers should have more utility. If you give healers more stuff to do that is engaging with the party I think it would fix a lot of 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 that's going on. (buffs, stuff to esuna etc) there are plenty of options.


Your casting is not much different than a bard (sure you are casting AoW a crap ton but your lack of healing is not because of a lack of ability) your lack of healing is from a lack of difficulty.


Either way, I don't think healers should be dps focused anyways, I'd rather you be able to buff everyone to boost an actual dps. That's just my thoughts


p.s. you have so many CD's you could be going through in dungeons on a regular basis from looking at these casts btw. You could be doing WAY more, you just choose not too...

FPS games are super casual friendly with high skill ceilings, but have been like forevar as totally elitist and toxic environments while more challenging (Megaman Zero, bullet hell shooters) or densely packed (FFVIII, Disgaea) games will usually end up being several levels of niche because of their difficulty in comparrison, or incompatibility with netflix watching, in my experience. You're definitely not going to win by soap-boxing about casuals. In terms of something else to do: AST had a really good system that was very engaging than the current, which is both frustratingly frantic and totally boring at the same time, and that was done because of player complaints, community memes, and data from bad player habits from imitating w/o understanding why

Also, the game could use more "how they mitigate" and "how they heal" in the past over the near endless redundancies that literally plague WHM in every iteration like the current. And, bards feels like it's empty right now with questionable changes, new actions, and our new gauge that's like lillies (4.0) but with music. Job design is definitely the low point of FF14 right now

[Nomuno]

There's always going to be content you overgear or that you get a really good group for that takes little damage. If this happens and all you have are buffs as filler, what do you do when everyone is topped off and buffed? Spam overwrite your buffs or twiddle your thumbs?

Dps as a healer works fine for a filler because it's always useful, the issue is it's not a filler in most cases, it's the bulk of our casts and it's far too simple. There needs to be more damage going out even in easier content, our heal toolkit is just too good, particularly aoe and ogcd heal and we could do with an actual dps toolkit rather than 1-2 buttons so our filler time is actually engaging.

You assumed I meant to take away what little dps skills you have and replace with utility .. no I meant add more utility to existing.

[Nomuno]

FPS games are super casual friendly with high skill ceilings, but have been like forevar as totally elitist and toxic environments while more challenging (Megaman Zero, bullet hell shooters) or densely packed (FFVIII, Disgaea) games will usually end up being several levels of niche because of their difficulty in comparrison, or incompatibility with netflix watching, in my experience. You're definitely not going to win by soap-boxing about casuals. In terms of something else to do: AST had a really good system that was very engaging than the current, which is both frustratingly frantic and totally boring at the same time, and that was done because of player complaints, community memes, and data from bad player habits from imitating w/o understanding why

Also, the game could use more "how they mitigate" and "how they heal" in the past over the near endless redundancies that literally plague WHM in every iteration like the current. And, bards feels like it's empty right now with questionable changes, new actions, and our new gauge that's like lillies (4.0) but with music. Job design is definitely the low point of FF14 right now

Sorry you don't enjoy bard, I actually do. (more akin to a ranger, and that's more my style) Either way, I have no idea what you are going on about, literally. (not sure where FPS games / Netflix came from in all of this o.O)


Im not sure what you are saying? If this game gets harder its going to get toxic? I'm not asking for harder savage content. Im asking for harder normal content. Have you been to Eureka? The regular mobs there are about what the difficulty should be IMO (minus all the elemental stuff)


I know healers are twiddling their thumbs in dungeons, but that is bad content design.