do you think this Wall to Wall pulling (in roulettes)is hurting the healer population

[Nomuno]

As many have stated, it's because SE decided that healers shouldn't have anything to do is why people don't want to play healer. If anything wall to walls are one of the very few saving graces of being a healer, because then you can actually do something.

This is the crap I don't get.

WHY ROLL A GD HEALER IF YOU WANT TO DPS. It can be said for any job. Why the hell would you main a healer if you didn't have the intentions to be a healer? Play a different job if you don't want to heal.

[Shalan]

This is the crap I don't get.

WHY ROLL A GD HEALER IF YOU WANT TO DPS. It can be said for any job. Why the hell would you main a healer if you didn't have the intentions to be a healer? Play a different job if you don't want to heal.

We do intend to heal, it's just that healing isn't what we wind up spending the majority of our time doing as a result of this game's design. Most fights are scripted/have predictable damage and both the tanks and ourselves are so loaded with OGCD mitigation and healing that it's very common to spend upwards of 70% of any dungeon/encounter doing DPS. Even when we do wall to wall pulls we can still spend the majority of our time DPSing. If a tank isn't doing wall to wall pulls sometimes we don't even have to heal at all (beyond one or two OGCDs).

Just take a look at the average ability count cast for this SCH's dungeon run, and realize this was before everyone was overgeared to hell and back from doing Eden.

Average SCH dungeon gameplay at 80:



This job is so boring to play I loathe running my experts each week.

That's two abilities forming more than half of all spells cast in the dungeon. Imagine if another job was in this state, spamming nothing but one or two buttons all dungeon.

Despite this being the way the game has worked for years, SE continues to dumb down and remove our DPS abilities, making the role more and more boring for us. Their incompetence or unwillingness to see the reality of this role's situation is driving people away, and they've repeatedly shown misunderstanding of how healers play at such a fundamental level it's mind boggling.

[Nomuno]

We do intend to heal, it's just that healing isn't what we wind up spending the majority of our time doing as a result of this game's design. Most fights are scripted/have predictable damage and both the tanks and ourselves are so loaded with OGCD mitigation and healing that it's very common to spend upwards of 70% of any dungeon/encounter doing DPS. Even when we do wall to wall pulls we can still spend the majority of our time DPSing. If a tank isn't doing wall to wall pulls sometimes we don't even have to heal at all (beyond one or two OGCDs).

Trust me I know what the current state of healers are in this game. But my point still stands. You're a healer, not a dps. Simply complaining that content isn't engaging enough (or like the OP saying content is too hard as one) The problem is the casualness of this game... they made dungeons a snoozefest and THAT is why you broil/aow/holy/whateverthehellastrosdo for days in the dungeons. Another thing that could/should be done is healers should have more utility. If you give healers more stuff to do that is engaging with the party I think it would fix a lot of 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 that's going on. (buffs, stuff to esuna etc) there are plenty of options.


Your casting is not much different than a bard (sure you are casting AoW a crap ton but your lack of healing is not because of a lack of ability) your lack of healing is from a lack of difficulty.


Either way, I don't think healers should be dps focused anyways, I'd rather you be able to buff everyone to boost an actual dps. That's just my thoughts


p.s. you have so many CD's you could be going through in dungeons on a regular basis from looking at these casts btw. You could be doing WAY more, you just choose not too...

[Liam_Harper]

Either way, I don't think healers should be dps focused anyways, I'd rather you be able to buff everyone to boost an actual dps. That's just my thoughts

There's always going to be content you overgear or that you get a really good group for that takes little damage. If this happens and all you have are buffs as filler, what do you do when everyone is topped off and buffed? Spam overwrite your buffs or twiddle your thumbs?

Dps as a healer works fine for a filler because it's always useful, the issue is it's not a filler in most cases, it's the bulk of our casts and it's far too simple. There needs to be more damage going out even in easier content, our heal toolkit is just too good, particularly aoe and ogcd heal and we could do with an actual dps toolkit rather than 1-2 buttons so our filler time is actually engaging.

[Nomuno]

There's always going to be content you overgear or that you get a really good group for that takes little damage. If this happens and all you have are buffs as filler, what do you do when everyone is topped off and buffed? Spam overwrite your buffs or twiddle your thumbs?

Dps as a healer works fine for a filler because it's always useful, the issue is it's not a filler in most cases, it's the bulk of our casts and it's far too simple. There needs to be more damage going out even in easier content, our heal toolkit is just too good, particularly aoe and ogcd heal and we could do with an actual dps toolkit rather than 1-2 buttons so our filler time is actually engaging.

You assumed I meant to take away what little dps skills you have and replace with utility .. no I meant add more utility to existing.

[MPNZ]

Trust me I know what the current state of healers are in this game. But my point still stands. You're a healer, not a dps. Simply complaining that content isn't engaging enough (or like the OP saying content is too hard as one) The problem is the casualness of this game... they made dungeons a snoozefest and THAT is why you broil/aow/holy/whateverthehellastrosdo for days in the dungeons. Another thing that could/should be done is healers should have more utility. If you give healers more stuff to do that is engaging with the party I think it would fix a lot of 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 that's going on. (buffs, stuff to esuna etc) there are plenty of options.


Your casting is not much different than a bard (sure you are casting AoW a crap ton but your lack of healing is not because of a lack of ability) your lack of healing is from a lack of difficulty.


Either way, I don't think healers should be dps focused anyways, I'd rather you be able to buff everyone to boost an actual dps. That's just my thoughts


p.s. you have so many CD's you could be going through in dungeons on a regular basis from looking at these casts btw. You could be doing WAY more, you just choose not too...

FPS games are super casual friendly with high skill ceilings, but have been like forevar as totally elitist and toxic environments while more challenging (Megaman Zero, bullet hell shooters) or densely packed (FFVIII, Disgaea) games will usually end up being several levels of niche because of their difficulty in comparrison, or incompatibility with netflix watching, in my experience. You're definitely not going to win by soap-boxing about casuals. In terms of something else to do: AST had a really good system that was very engaging than the current, which is both frustratingly frantic and totally boring at the same time, and that was done because of player complaints, community memes, and data from bad player habits from imitating w/o understanding why

Also, the game could use more "how they mitigate" and "how they heal" in the past over the near endless redundancies that literally plague WHM in every iteration like the current. And, bards feels like it's empty right now with questionable changes, new actions, and our new gauge that's like lillies (4.0) but with music. Job design is definitely the low point of FF14 right now

[Nomuno]

FPS games are super casual friendly with high skill ceilings, but have been like forevar as totally elitist and toxic environments while more challenging (Megaman Zero, bullet hell shooters) or densely packed (FFVIII, Disgaea) games will usually end up being several levels of niche because of their difficulty in comparrison, or incompatibility with netflix watching, in my experience. You're definitely not going to win by soap-boxing about casuals. In terms of something else to do: AST had a really good system that was very engaging than the current, which is both frustratingly frantic and totally boring at the same time, and that was done because of player complaints, community memes, and data from bad player habits from imitating w/o understanding why

Also, the game could use more "how they mitigate" and "how they heal" in the past over the near endless redundancies that literally plague WHM in every iteration like the current. And, bards feels like it's empty right now with questionable changes, new actions, and our new gauge that's like lillies (4.0) but with music. Job design is definitely the low point of FF14 right now

Sorry you don't enjoy bard, I actually do. (more akin to a ranger, and that's more my style) Either way, I have no idea what you are going on about, literally. (not sure where FPS games / Netflix came from in all of this o.O)


Im not sure what you are saying? If this game gets harder its going to get toxic? I'm not asking for harder savage content. Im asking for harder normal content. Have you been to Eureka? The regular mobs there are about what the difficulty should be IMO (minus all the elemental stuff)


I know healers are twiddling their thumbs in dungeons, but that is bad content design.

[MPNZ]

Sorry you don't enjoy bard, I actually do. (more akin to a ranger, and that's more my style) Either way, I have no idea what you are going on about, literally. (not sure where FPS games / Netflix came from in all of this o.O)


Im not sure what you are saying? If this game gets harder its going to get toxic? I'm not asking for harder savage content. Im asking for harder normal content. Have you been to Eureka? The regular mobs there are about what the difficulty should be IMO (minus all the elemental stuff)


I know healers are twiddling their thumbs in dungeons, but that is bad content design.

Which means that it's a total design fail like the bow-mage, and birthed ranger trolls. It's not unfun as not as satisfying or rewarding to play or manipulate and abuse various things. And, bewilderment as to current design changes overall with several feeling really out of touch

FPS games are both notoriously toxic and elitist environments as they are super easy to play and improve (low skill floor = less difficulty) to higher skill levels and doing lots of amazing feats (high skill ceiling = heights of player ability within a given game). The "casual" being a particular strawman that you just like totally invoked. And, the current AST is simpler, requires a lot more to upkeep with a lot less time to do it, and has very little depth than the previous version, but is way easier to get to it's maximum potential, for example.

Platformers like MMZ are notoriously hard and have a niche fanbases that rarely break into the Mainstream in comparison to the more casual friendly genres like FPS and block/stack puzzlers, and, like, a lot of ppl do play this game while watching netflix which is just totes impossible for me and I don't know how they do it

[Nomuno]

Which means that it's a total design fail like the bow-mage, and birthed ranger trolls. It's not unfun as not as satisfying or rewarding to play or manipulate and abuse various things. And, bewilderment as to current design changes overall with several feeling really out of touch

FPS games are both notoriously toxic and elitist environments as they are super easy to play and improve (low skill floor = less difficulty) to higher skill levels and doing lots of amazing feats (high skill ceiling = heights of player ability within a given game). The "casual" being a particular strawman that you just like totally invoked. And, the current AST is simpler, requires a lot more to upkeep with a lot less time to do it, and has very little depth than the previous version, but is way easier to get to it's maximum potential, for example.

Platformers like MMZ are notoriously hard and have a niche fanbases that rarely break into the Mainstream in comparison to the more casual friendly genres like FPS and block/stack puzzlers, and, like, a lot of ppl do play this game while watching netflix which is just totes impossible for me and I don't know how they do it

Again what the heck are you talking about. Where is this toxic argument going? I'm confused, are you just trying to make a point that if this game gets harder that it will get toxic? and you are calling my argument strawman? Give me a break, ANY game can be toxic, and EVERY game has a toxic fanbase (size may vary). That itself is inevitable. You will always have people that get their rocks off on griefing or just whooping a players butt.

Regardless, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Moonlite]

That's two abilities forming more than half of all spells cast in the dungeon. Imagine if another job was in this state, spamming nothing but one or two buttons all dungeon.

Despite this being the way the game has worked for years, SE continues to dumb down and remove our DPS abilities, making the role more and more boring for us. Their incompetence or unwillingness to see the reality of this role's situation is driving people away, and they've repeatedly shown misunderstanding of how healers play at such a fundamental level it's mind boggling.

I actually wondered if giving healers the party buff job and adding debuffs that are impactful it would make people happier. If only healers had buffs it would remove the argument over X dps is better than Y because of buff. It would allow tweaking dps a bit easier. Also reduce dps tool kit allowing for some new stuff or some of the removed stuff to come back in a new version. It would increase the non dps skills for healers and sort of fit in the back row helper play style. I know we would end up with a thread bad healer not buffing dps properly. But we can have a 100 different X not doing job properly. Debuff skills could be balanced to make them worthless on trash packs, but a good punch on bosses which last a bit longer.