Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[Alleo]

Honestly, if he does go off and eat one of them I've been hoping it was Hydaelyn, if only because how how hilarious it'd be to have to work with Elidibus to rejoin everything to the point where we can get Zodiark's help.

Which would go against our character. Because rejoining means huge catastrophes on the source and billions of lifes lost through the shards. Our character would never ever stand for this and the scions even less.

[EdwinLi]

Which would go against our character. Because rejoining means huge catastrophes on the source and billions of lifes lost through the shards. Our character would never ever stand for this and the scions even less.

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

I still suspect there is a way to Rejoin the world into the original world without a Calalmity but the only reason why we don't see it is because of Zodiark Temp on the Ascians preventing them from seeing it. The Calamity can be considered the "Faster" method but also the most destructive.

The Non-Calamity method may require something very difficult to achieve or very risky to even attempt such as requiring both Zodiark and Hydaelyn to get along and perform the rejoining together but currently we know that is impossible due to their nature with Zodiark about preserving the past life while Hydaelyn is about preserving the future life.


and they want basically want to kill each other with the added fact the Calamity also weakens Hydaelyn as a bonus this Zodiark may only allow the Ascians to see the Calamity as the only way through their tempering.

Yoshi-P said in an interview (Dengeki or Famitsu, I believe, about a year ago?) concerning FF XIV's life cycle that they had ideas for two more expansions to end the current story and even more ideas for at least 4 years of new story after that. Since we were in the 4.x cycle then, it's interpreted as the Hydaelyn/Zodiark Arc ending 2 expacs later with 6.x.

Yep, we are at that point now if we consider what it is said.

Still makes me wonder how will Season 2 storyline go if it is only 4 years which will only last 2 expansions unless they plan for another 2 expansions after to extend the expect time to another 4 years but that would stretch it considering the demand for a better graphic FF MMO.

[JeanneOrnitier]

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

I still suspect there is a way to Rejoin the world into the original world without a Calalmity but the only reason why we don't see it is because of Zodiark Temp on the Ascians preventing them from seeing it. The Calamity can be considered the "Faster" method but also the most destructive.

The Non-Calamity method may require something very difficult to achieve or very risky to even attempt such as requiring both Zodiark and Hydaelyn to get along and perform the rejoining together but currently we know that is impossible due to their nature with Zodiark about preserving the past life while Hydaelyn is about preserving the future life.

Even if there is a way to rejoin without a Calamity, why would we want to do that? A Rejoining means killing off one of the Shards so the Source sucks up all its aether. Even if there's no Calamity on the Source we'd still be killing off all the remaining Shards and their citizens. There's no harm in allowing the Shards and all of the people living in them to remain as they are.

[Alleo]

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

And we cant just assume that such a way is possible and also why should we even do that? For us living like its now is good. Maybe we will get some more information that show this kind of state as being bad, but I somehow doubt it. Also how would such rejoinings even happen without any death? These shards are not like Azys Lla, they are not missing from our planet. They are their own planet so how twould they even fit on our source? How would these billions of lifeforms not mess up the source if they suddenly pop up?

And for what? To fight Zodiark? Why? He is probably the most powerful being in existence. He was created by the sacrifice of unknown amounts of Ancient beings. He was able to save a planet that was beyond saving and rewrote reality and law. And if we do rejoinings without death, that also means that nobody is fully complete. How would we ever go against someone like that?

Edit:

Yes a lot can happen and yes sometimes new lore changes our perspective a bit but what you want is imo not something possible and would make no sense in this story. And even if some things change they have made it clear again and again that the theme is that people should go on and not stick to the past. And with saving the first and showing this as good I doubt they somehow would turn around and rejoin worlds anyway.

You can speculate anything but there are some theories which will make more sense then others because they are rooted with at least some facts. I could also go and say that at the end of the story the WoL wakes up and sees that he/she is in the real world and all of it was a dream which they got while falling asleep when they played FF14 online. I mean theoretically SE could go that way but it makes no sense at all for them to do that.

[EdwinLi]

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Like i said we just have to wait and see what happens between 5.1 to 6.0.

There is a lot of things we know now that may be revealed to be a lie during these moments and what we believe is not possible maybe possible in the end.

There is a saying in Guild Wars 2 from the Priory Order being "History never lies but Historians do."

In our perspective now we are only seeing things from Historians perspective of events but not the actual history itself. Everything we are told to keep things the way they are and rejoining is a bad idea because it only cause issues with no positive results is still through Historians perspective of things but not the actual History of the events and Historians tend to twist the truth or miss certain truth about what really happened in History. It is part of 5.0 plot being to question the things we know and what are the things we are missing which I expect to be greatly expanded on through 5.1 to 6.0.

We most likely won't see the Truth until maybe between 5.2 to 6.0 since currently I expect that the only way we will ever know the Truth is through the Original Soul's memories since Hydaelyn does not want anyone to know about the Original World and Ascians only want to tell people the parts of the Original World History they know about that benefits them only.

I expect 5.1 to be one of this "cliffhanger" plots that starts the question but does not answer anything because of "cliffhanger for hype" reasons for 5.2 MSQ or sometime between 5.3 to 5.55 MSQ plot.

[Iscah]

Like i said we just have to wait and see what happens between 5.1 to 6.0.

There is a lot of things we know now that may be revealed to be a lie during these moments and what we believe is not possible maybe possible in the end.

"Anything could happen"... but only if the writers want it to happen and think it would be the best way to conclude the story. What best fits the themes that have been building all this time.

The Rejoining will only become necessary if the writers think it is a better ending than defeating the Ascians (and/or whatever else) and saving all the worlds to continue their individual existences.

There is plenty of room for further revelations without resorting to this particular one.

I expect that the only way we will ever know the Truth is through the Original Soul's memories since Hydaelyn does not want anyone to know about the Original World

Our only knowledge of that comes from Elidibus's monologue at the end, and it's ambiguous. It seems more about the 'average person' not being aware that their world is somehow cosmically "incomplete" or a shadow of what it was in the past - they don't need to know it and won't ever see it as a problem because it's undetectable at a normal human level.

It doesn't mean that Hydaelyn (if She is in a state to communicate at all now) won't tell us the whole truth now that we know part of it, and know the right questions to ask.

Perhaps we regain old memories. Perhaps we question Elidibus, or Hydaelyn, or Hythlodaeus if he's still there to be talked to.

There is certainly a lot for us to learn about the "original world" as you're calling it - but it's not something separate that we necessarily need to return to. It's the ancient history of all the worlds, but they have all changed and become unique worlds since they split apart and there is no need to recombine them, unless (the writers decide to introduce that) there is some cosmic requirement to do so.

And in my opinion, it would be poor writing and inconsistent with everything they have thematically built up to this far.

The ancient world is there to provide a realistic goal for the Ascians so they're not just cackling villains. It doesn't mean it has to become our goal as well.

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

There are a lot of things we "haven't heard of" for the simple reason that they are so impossible they're not worth mentioning. Unless and until the game reveals it is actually necessary and doable, I consider a "good Rejoining" to be one of them.

In any case the Calamity is not the only negative effect of a Rejoining - the erasing of entire worlds is far worse, and severe disruption by ''melding" them isn't much better.

[EdwinLi]

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I am talking about Echo visions and story instances that have WoL relive the Original Soul's life to see what really happened during the final moments of the Original World before the Calmaity. Part of 5.0 plot is about that we can no longer take things at face value only now as there is something more behind the scenes. It is part of 5.0 plot to question everything we know and for it to continue through 5.1 to 6.0.

The most Obvious ending currently will be that nothing changes in the end with the Shards and Source with the only thing different is that Zodiark and Ascians are both dead leaving Hydaelyn to be the Goddess of all life in the worlds 100% now or both Zodiark and Hydaelyn dies thus leaving the Shards and Source to develop on their own without any influence from Gods, Asicans, and etc anymore. Simple, straight forward, and no complicated plot twists since we been expecting this ending since 2.0.

But as I said we can't determine where this will lead now since there are many things that can be revealed due to the introduction of the Original World and Original Soul. To ignore what really happened in these two things will be against the Plot of 5.0 being to move on from the past but to also never forget that they existed.... that they lived. To learn the Truth about the Original World and original soul is important to 5.0 plot because these are the proof of the Past that lived and the key to ending this eternal conflict between Zodiark and Hydaelyn may remain in it as well so we don't repeat the mistakes of the Past so the future generation can continue.

Either way this is how I will end my part of this discussion since, as I said, we can't truely predict what will happen in the end. We can only go by what we know and what we may consider a possible outcome.

[Alleo]

Like i said we just have to wait and see what happens between 5.1 to 6.0.

There is a lot of things we know now that may be revealed to be a lie during these moments and what we believe is not possible maybe possible in the end.

There is a saying in Guild Wars 2 from the Priory Order being "History never lies but Historians do."

And good writers still dont just tell us that every single thing we know is a lie thus I still cant see how your theory can even happen. For this to happen we suddenly have to find a way to combine everything without death and somehow withouth consequences to the source and go against our character and let them act completely different.

Also Yoshida himself has pointed out that he is a very skeptic person and wants to hear both sides and warned people to just see Hydealyn suddenly as evil just because we got the Ascians side..that we should wait to hear her too. This still sounds to me that they are not planning to do whole turnarounds.

And I am not sure what Historians being subjective and not 100% accurate in their lore has to do with your examples on what could happen? Historians have no hand in that. Even if people suddenly all knew about the past what would that really change? Maybe you have some people like Varis that believes that they should be complete and perfect again but honestly I do believe that most people would be quite fine with living the way they are if it means living at all..And again why should people like the WoL or even the scions start to try to find a way to combine the worlds again? These shards are (without Ascians) seemingly completely fine on their own.

So my question again: Why should that even happen? Why should the writers of FF14 even go that way when they showed us that these people on the shards are just like us and that they are quite happy living. Why should they change it when they have used Alphinaud and the others to say that its fine to live like that because its their life and they have the right to live. What would be the purpose? To be suprising (and subverting expectations..) just for the sake of it?

[EdwinLi]

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"History never lies but Historians do" saying is the representation that those who tell stories of the past may not always tell the Truth.

I never said everyone has to learn what happened in the Original World and Original soul. My expectation is that WoL and maybe the Scions learn more about it since the focus of the Original World and the Original Soul is related more to WoL's origins and the Scion's long term goal to defeating Zodiark and Ascians.

It is a very big theme that 5.0 setup about learning the True History of the world so we don't follow blindly anymore as the story has been exactly that since 2.0, to follow blindly with Hydaelyn's belief until we defeat Zodiark because everything is as it should be and everything Bad is caused by Ascians as we are told. What it may bring has yet to be determined until 5.1 to 6.0 MSQ.

As for why thing may change and what it may bring about through 5.1 to 6.0, as I said it is best for now to just wait and see. I have already said maybe nothing will change and we get the expect "Defeat Ascian and Zodiark ending with hydaelyn still live to watch over the worlds as the Benevolent Goddess" that we expected since 2.0 or maybe something changes that leads to a different ending. We cannot say for certain currently nor determine how will learning about WoL's Origins and the Original World may affect the storyline.

I'll end the discussion here because in the end the only thing we can do is wait and see how will SE expand on the Original World and WoL's Origins storyline they have setup in 5.0 ending. Though my best guess is that they won't touch it until 5.4 since they may want to only focus on getting the Scions back to the source in 5.1 to 5.3 unless fragments of the memories return for story reasons (best guess it is due to being more rejoined than everyone else) slowly through 5.1 to 6.0 MSQ.