Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[MrThinker]

Has there been some kind of Word of God claim that the Ascian and Zodiark storyline is going to end in the next expansion that I missed? Legit question.

I believe Yoshi P addressed the Hydaelyn and Zodiarck arc would be 80% complete by the end of the Shadowbringers patch cycle, either in an interview around Gamescon or somewhere earlier. As such, most people are anticipating the end of that arc to be in 6.0

[RicaRuin]

Yoshi-P said in an interview (Dengeki or Famitsu, I believe, about a year ago?) concerning FF XIV's life cycle that they had ideas for two more expansions to end the current story and even more ideas for at least 4 years of new story after that. Since we were in the 4.x cycle then, it's interpreted as the Hydaelyn/Zodiark Arc ending 2 expacs later with 6.x.

[Alleo]

Honestly, if he does go off and eat one of them I've been hoping it was Hydaelyn, if only because how how hilarious it'd be to have to work with Elidibus to rejoin everything to the point where we can get Zodiark's help.

Which would go against our character. Because rejoining means huge catastrophes on the source and billions of lifes lost through the shards. Our character would never ever stand for this and the scions even less.

[EdwinLi]

Which would go against our character. Because rejoining means huge catastrophes on the source and billions of lifes lost through the shards. Our character would never ever stand for this and the scions even less.

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

I still suspect there is a way to Rejoin the world into the original world without a Calalmity but the only reason why we don't see it is because of Zodiark Temp on the Ascians preventing them from seeing it. The Calamity can be considered the "Faster" method but also the most destructive.

The Non-Calamity method may require something very difficult to achieve or very risky to even attempt such as requiring both Zodiark and Hydaelyn to get along and perform the rejoining together but currently we know that is impossible due to their nature with Zodiark about preserving the past life while Hydaelyn is about preserving the future life.


and they want basically want to kill each other with the added fact the Calamity also weakens Hydaelyn as a bonus this Zodiark may only allow the Ascians to see the Calamity as the only way through their tempering.

Yoshi-P said in an interview (Dengeki or Famitsu, I believe, about a year ago?) concerning FF XIV's life cycle that they had ideas for two more expansions to end the current story and even more ideas for at least 4 years of new story after that. Since we were in the 4.x cycle then, it's interpreted as the Hydaelyn/Zodiark Arc ending 2 expacs later with 6.x.

Yep, we are at that point now if we consider what it is said.

Still makes me wonder how will Season 2 storyline go if it is only 4 years which will only last 2 expansions unless they plan for another 2 expansions after to extend the expect time to another 4 years but that would stretch it considering the demand for a better graphic FF MMO.

[JeanneOrnitier]

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

I still suspect there is a way to Rejoin the world into the original world without a Calalmity but the only reason why we don't see it is because of Zodiark Temp on the Ascians preventing them from seeing it. The Calamity can be considered the "Faster" method but also the most destructive.

The Non-Calamity method may require something very difficult to achieve or very risky to even attempt such as requiring both Zodiark and Hydaelyn to get along and perform the rejoining together but currently we know that is impossible due to their nature with Zodiark about preserving the past life while Hydaelyn is about preserving the future life.

Even if there is a way to rejoin without a Calamity, why would we want to do that? A Rejoining means killing off one of the Shards so the Source sucks up all its aether. Even if there's no Calamity on the Source we'd still be killing off all the remaining Shards and their citizens. There's no harm in allowing the Shards and all of the people living in them to remain as they are.

[LineageRazor]

It's my guess, that if Zenos tries to possess and control Zodiark (or Hydaelyn - but more likely Zo, i think), he will succeed. I have several reasons for believing that:
- "Villain succeeds in horrendous plot, and the hero has to overcome impossible odds to stop him" is a Final Fantasy staple.
- God conquers mortal is the expected result. Mortal conquers god is far more interesting and subversive.
- Zenos's success has been foreshadowed - not because he possessed Shinryu, but because he KNEW he could possess Shinryu. He has an understanding of Primals and their nature than anyone else - possibly even the Ascians. The fact that Zodiark is more powerful is irrelevant. A truck may be bigger and stronger than a Volkswagon, but as long as you can get behind the steering wheel you can drive either one.
- There are certainly stories where the villain Meddles with Forces He Ought Not and gets squooshed for his hubris, but Zenos's character really doesn't fit the mold for that type.

I'll admit I'm in the camp that really just wishes Zenos would drop out of the story, but that's just wishful thinking. I think there's simply too much writing on the wall that Zenos is not only going to try to possess Zodiark, but that he will succeed. If we're lucky, when we defeat Zenos we'll still be able to go a round with uncorrupted Zodiark, but I'm fairly confident we're going to have to have our climactic battle with "our enemy, our friend" first, with him at his absolute strongest.

Even if there is a way to rejoin without a Calamity, why would we want to do that? A Rejoining means killing off one of the Shards so the Source sucks up all its aether. Even if there's no Calamity on the Source we'd still be killing off all the remaining Shards and their citizens. There's no harm in allowing the Shards and all of the people living in them to remain as they are.

Folks advocating a "kind Rejoining" generally mean that EVERYTHING is merged. All of the people on all worlds are saved, whether by those people physically existing side-by-side on one world, or their consciousnesses merging.

The goal is to have the cake and eat it, too. Undo the damage done by the Sundering without any of the negatives that come with the Ascians' form of Rejoining.

[Iscah]

It's my guess, that if Zenos tries to possess and control Zodiark, he will succeed. I have several reasons for believing that:
- "Villain succeeds in horrendous plot, and the hero has to overcome impossible odds to stop him" is a Final Fantasy staple.
- God conquers mortal is the expected result. Mortal conquers god is far more interesting and subversive.
- Zenos's success has been foreshadowed - not because he possessed Shinryu, but because he KNEW he could possess Shinryu. He has an understanding of Primals and their nature than anyone else - possibly even the Ascians. The fact that Zodiark is more powerful is irrelevant. A truck may be bigger and stronger than a Volkswagon, but as long as you can get behind the steering wheel you can drive either one.
- There are certainly stories where the villain Meddles with Forces He Ought Not and gets squooshed for his hubris, but Zenos's character really doesn't fit the mold for that type.

There are reasons for it to go the other way too.

- subverting the "villain succeeds" plot and the foreshadowing.
- Zenos has already successfully merged with Shinryu, therefore potentially "mortal conquers god" is the expected outcome to be subverted.
- he has announced his plan ahead of time - this makes it less likely to play out as intended.
- I think "squooshed for his hubris" could be exactly what we're headed for.

Also on your "truck is like a Volkswagen" analogy... truck licenses are a specific thing for a reason, and if you assume you can safely drive the truck because you understand the theory and you drove a car once, then it may go badly for you.

Folks advocating a "kind Rejoining" generally mean that EVERYTHING is merged. All of the people on all worlds are saved, whether by those people physically existing side-by-side on one world, or their consciousnesses merging.

The goal is to have the cake and eat it, too. Undo the damage done by the Sundering without any of the negatives that come with the Ascians' form of Rejoining.

I can't see a "kind Rejoining" possibly being a thing - thematically or realistically.

You can't just merge the worlds and have everything be wonderful. The effect on the physical worlds would be chaotic - the same locations can be utterly different, and multiple countries would suddenly be occupying the same space.

And merged consciousnesses would be even more horrendous than the different people existing side by side. Could you imagine suddenly sharing your mind and memories with seven other people who are only "you" by some arcane link, despite having lived entirely different lives? Or to be one of those people - your body no longer your own, everyone you ever knew dissolved and recombined into someone else?

This is not a happy outcome, and is incompatible with the message so far of holding all those lives as equally unique and deserving of protection.

[Mixt]

Regarding Zenos and his plan.

Let's make an analogy to a certain well known but questionably written anime/manga, namely Naruto.

Zodiark plays the role of Kaguya.
Elidibus plays the role of White Zetsu.
Zenos is the Madara of this analogy.

"Oops, i absorbed too much power and got stabbed in the back by the guy who set me on the path to getting the power in the first place while i was busy monologuing at the heroes"

I'd laugh if it went down like that.

Using an existing work as an example seemed like the easiest way to get my point across, and that was the first one i thought of that fit the bill for the most part while also being fairly well known.

[EdwinLi]

I can't see a "kind Rejoining" possibly being a thing - thematically or realistically.

You can't just merge the worlds and have everything be wonderful. The effect on the physical worlds would be chaotic - the same locations can be utterly different, and multiple countries would suddenly be occupying the same space.

And merged consciousnesses would be even more horrendous than the different people existing side by side. Could you imagine suddenly sharing your mind and memories with seven other people who are only "you" by some arcane link, despite having lived entirely different lives? Or to be one of those people - your body no longer your own, everyone you ever knew dissolved and recombined into someone else?

This is not a happy outcome, and is incompatible with the message so far of holding all those lives as equally unique and deserving of protection.

It greatly depends on which method result is used.

The most common "Rejoining" in fantasy stories and Sci-fi stories, is the end result in a world that never experience nor got influenced by X event thus the History of the world is changed and certain people who would have been evil took on a different path in their life and certain people who died during the journey to the finale that cause the "Rejoining" plot are alive because the X event never happened in the "Rejoined" world.

However, the most common and generic Price for this ending is usually that only the Main Character or Main Characters remember the events of the Old World while everyone else do not have any memories because in the New "Rejoined" World's History these events never happened while changing the course of certain events as well that cause it to be mostly the same but with some major changes as well due to the removal of Ascians and WoL in History of the Planet.

For example, in the New "Rejoined" World, Aymeric still became the new leader of Ishgard but the difference is without Ascians in the History of the World Thordan never obtained the Idea to become a Primal to rule the World thus he is alive but either imprisoned or is a different person that allowed Aymeric to become the new leader of Ishgard since Aymeric manage to convince Thordan he is wrong. However, since Asican never gave Thordan and his knights the power of Primals nor caused the events of the chase into Azys Lla, Haurchefant and Ysayle are alive in the New World due to the change in History by simply removing the influence of Ascians from existence.

Another example, is that the Scions never came to existence due to no Ascians in the History of the world. Thus each Scion member took a different path in life but personality wise tey may remain the same such as Alphinaud and Alisaie remained in Sharlayan thus they never experienced the events of 2.0 to 6.0 that made them who we know today. Y'shtola may have remained with her Master to advance her knowledge to become her Sorceress Job. Thancred will still have Minfillia alive while also raising Ryne as his second daughter while Minfilia acts as Ryne's older sister. Papalymo will still be alive since in the New World history he never sacrificed himself to stop Shinryu due to no Ascians to give Ilberd the Eyes to summon Shinryu and Lyse would have learned to accept her true self by her own will (similar to how she did in Dissidia Opera Omnia) but since the Garlean Empire still exist history still set the real Yda to die and the Liberation of Ala Mhigo still happened but without Ascian, Primals, Echo powers, nor WoL being involved due to the changed History.

[Iscah]

...

That's not rejoining, that's overwriting timelines - only one version survives and the other is "thrown out". And you're only thinking about the Source, not the shards - we've seen that the worlds aren't identical copies like that. The differences are far greater than "character X died on the Source but survived on the First" - entire civilisations are different.

Additionally, replacing the Source with "a version of the Source where the Ascians never existed" is near impossible. They didn't just cause the death of a few people we like; they're entwined through all of history. The Allagan Empire might not exist; the Garlean Empire would not exist; the War of the Magi well might have been their doing. The Sundering itself might be erased.

This is an entirely different issue to the Rejoining ofthe current worlds, to say the least.