How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Edax]

It's all relative. Should tanks dps more and bosses given more HP to compensate? Should DPS be given less dps and more dps given to tanks?
Or is it an argument that tanks should do more damage and bosses be made easier and faster to kill as a result?

If the time to kill a boss is the same, is there objective value in the distribution ratio of dps between roles?

[BarretOblivion]

It's all relative. Should tanks dps more and bosses given more HP to compensate? Should DPS be given less dps and more dps given to tanks?
Or is it an argument that tanks should do more damage and bosses be made easier and faster to kill as a result?

If the time to kill a boss is the same, is there objective value in the distribution ratio of dps between roles?

The issue comes down to why bring in a 2nd tank? The only reason is the game is forcing one player to basically be there to help the other tank and take over for them at designed periods while utilizing a kit that is hampered compared to a DPS and the only "utility" we bring to help the group is raid wide mitigation that DPS also have, we just have a slightly shorter coodown on them. Honestly I am in agreement with my static tank, SE needs to just remove the 2nd tank slot and give us a 5 dps party comp at this point unless they severly make tanks more important (not just the MT). We have lost an impact on helping clear content, in SB there was a balance between all jobs to deal damage to take down raid bosses to hit group DPS requirements. Now the buffs to all DPS is pushing the importance of tank damage out which hurts tanks. Less people are going to be willing to run tank now because you don't feel impactful if you aren't the MT.

[Edax]

The issue comes down to why bring in a 2nd tank? The only reason is the game is forcing one player to basically be there to help the other tank and take over for them at designed periods while utilizing a kit that is hampered compared to a DPS and the only "utility" we bring to help the group is raid wide mitigation that DPS also have, we just have a slightly shorter coodown on them. Honestly I am in agreement with my static tank, SE needs to just remove the 2nd tank slot and give us a 5 dps party comp at this point unless they severly make tanks more important (not just the MT). We have lost an impact on helping clear content, in SB there was a balance between all jobs to deal damage to take down raid bosses to hit group DPS requirements. Now the buffs to all DPS is pushing the importance of tank damage out which hurts tanks. Less people are going to be willing to run tank now because you don't feel impactful if you aren't the MT.

What would be the point of removing the Off Tank with a DPS? SE isn't arbitrary going to make design the boss fights easier or die faster just because they added a 5th DPS. And more to the point I'm happy being an OT. Fewer tank positions means tanks no longer will be in need on the roulettes and they will have vastly longer queue times which conversely would make me feel far less impactful then I do now.

[Shurrikhan]

If the time to kill a boss is the same, is there objective value in the distribution ratio of dps between roles?

In short, yes. Absolutely. It's not something you'd normally feel in a forced 2/4/2 allotments under heavy homogenization, but it's exactly what allows for flexibility into uniqueness within those role allotments when less homogeneous or flexibility into other role allotments regardless. The rest is "feelcraft", but that doesn't make it quite irrelevant either. Starting from "cruise-control" play, if, say, it took the same amount of effort to increase your useful outputs by 15% on one job or role as it took to increase them by 30% in optimizing either, which do you think would more often attract engaged play? Or, heck, what if it the difference between engaged, masterful play and vague Netflix-muscle memory play was at most 15% performance on one and some 30% on the other? In such cases, the role doesn't matter in itself, but those concerns may need to encroach a bit into the 'allotted damage distribution' in order to make the job's gameplay feel compelling.

Again, I'm not of the opinion that tank damage has been made so low that it no longer feels compelling or our actions meaningful. The difference between good play and poor play, though not particularly demanding at all, is enough in terms of our own outputs that I don't mind if it measures up to relatively little compared to that of a DPS's output. But, I do feel it's nearing the threshold at which our part in the fight (which, apart from hitting an extra "Tanking" action every so often, is just dps) would feel less impactful than it should, which is kind of a first for XIV, where tank damage even in single-target has usually been decently high relative to the DPS.