Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Wayfinder3]

Sure, it's a fair complaint to have. Though, I don't agree that Red Mage is shallow at all, as from my perspective, it is every other jobs that have become convoluted. I am drawn to Red Mage because of how "shallow" it is. Similarly, and I'm sure I will be burned at the stake for saying this, but I had alot more fun with paladin before it started pretending to be a caster. To each their own.

quite. only a handful of jobs have become convoluted in my opinion. perhaps it's likely a matter of taste as i wouldn't exactly call a 5 gcd instant cast phase every minute, convoluted. it's very simple and isn't much different from using shield lob 5 times in a row every minute except it does magic damage. None of the tanks are all that convoluted and the only jobs i feel are teetering on that line too much are AST, NIN, MNK, and arguably SMN and MCH. everyone else is fine

red mage on the other hand is painfully straightforward to a fault. it really does boil down to BW BW melee repeat while using all your ogcds on CD and only a finite amount of depth to receive through manafication optimization.

[Sareal]

perhaps it's likely a matter of taste as i wouldn't exactly call a 5 gcd instant cast phase every minute, convoluted.

Tanks specifically, especially Paladin, isn't what I would refer to as convoluted. However, you did say you wanted to add depth to Red Mage, but stated that you did not want it to become harder to play. Paladin pops in my head, it added depth but it isn't harder to play, and it feels wholly unsatisfying. (to me)

I was fine with Paladin before they added this Requiescat gimmick, as much as I'm fine with the current flow and toolkit of Red Mage.

[Wayfinder3]

Tanks specifically, especially Paladin, isn't what I would refer to as convoluted. However, you did say you wanted to add depth to Red Mage, but stated that you did not want it to become harder to play. Paladin pops in my head, it added depth but it isn't harder to play, and it feels wholly unsatisfying. (to me)

I was fine with Paladin before they added this Requiescat gimmick, as much as I'm fine with the current flow and toolkit of Red Mage.

Im curious though, what about that gimmick is convoluted to you?

Red mage certainly can become harder for me personally, but difficulty and level of optimization shouldn't go hand in hand, it should be possible to add more moving parts to a job without making it far too complicated . we do see this with jobs like BLM who's really come into it's own with the amount of tools it's been given over the years but is arguably the best it's been since ARR.

[Sareal]

Im curious though, what about that gimmick is convoluted to you?

Read my messages carefully and you'll see that what I'm saying is quite the opposite. My wording was wrong, as I should've said "Every other DPS feels convoluted to me." (Yes, even Black Mage, but that's obviously my opinion.) Holy Spirit spam isn't convoluted, but it's a perfect example of adding depth that goes nowhere. The FFXIV community likes when things are complicated, that's fine, but what I'm saying is that, in my perspective, Red Mage is the only thing currently keeping me in the game as far as jobs go, so I wouldn't want to see it get less "shallow" as you've previously mentioned.

[Wayfinder3]

Read my messages carefully and you'll see that what I'm saying is quite the opposite. My wording was wrong, as I should've said "Every other DPS feels convoluted to me." (Yes, even Black Mage, but that's obviously my opinion.) Holy Spirit spam isn't convoluted, but it's a perfect example of adding depth that goes nowhere. The FFXIV community likes when things are complicated, that's fine, but what I'm saying is that, in my perspective, Red Mage is the only thing currently keeping me in the game as far as jobs go, so I wouldn't want to see it get less "shallow" as you've previously mentioned.

I suppose we'll agree to disagree here.