Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Kabooa]

I think you're misinterpreting what she was saying.

She wants RDM to bring second highest RDPS contribution behind dancer and tied with NIN. Changing up embolden to all damage would put us allot closer to that. Its the typical model for classes that deal low personal damage.

High PDPS > Hybrid PDPS > Low PDPS.
Low RDPS < Hybrid DPS < High RDPS.

Examples are:
MCH BRD DNC
WHM SCH AST
BLM SMN RDM

Okay.

How would you do this?

Because most of what's being asked for is potency buffs, and that doesn't fit this model well - When buffing is statistically a low part of total damage outputs, equalizing "RDPS" with potency buffs means the jobs who are "PDPS = RDPS" get edged out.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...5&dpstype=pdps

Take this as an example - Aggregate data of good runs.

Red mage's RDPS is 400 higher than it's ADPS (AKA PDPS + Group buffs). If we are to equalize the RDPS to Black Mage (~1900), and do this solely via potency buffs, then Red mage's ADPS is 15,400. At a glance this doesn't seem so bad, except for one thing.

The Black Mage is wholly independent of everyone else for its damage contribution. A Black Mage is always [arbitrary] number. It never changes on the group composition. It never changes on whether or not others capitalize on buff windows, for indeed it applies none.

If it's 15,000, it will always be 15,000.

If the Red Mage is 15,000, it can be 14,500. It can be 15,500. It can be [Personal +/- raid variance], and the issue is that raid variance isn't really that significant a portion of damage in the grand scheme of things. If at all levels of play the Red Mage should be in the same ball park as the Black Mage, it's a small raid variance with a high static value (Personal DPS).

And at that point, why even bother bringing the Black Mage? The Red mage will be just as good and can swing higher when your team is better.

That 700 more DPS the Black mage does (but not really - RDPS is RDPS, and they're going to be the same, if RDM won't be higher) means you kill faster. Sure, speedkilling.

When teams are pushing something along the lines of 100,000 DPS, 700 more dps would be .7%.

If your kill time with the Black Mage is 7:21 (441 seconds) then you kill time without one is 444.

[Zyneste]

Okay.

How would you do this?

Because most of what's being asked for is potency buffs, and that doesn't fit this model well - When buffing is statistically a low part of total damage outputs, equalizing "RDPS" with potency buffs means the jobs who are "PDPS = RDPS" get edged out.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...5&dpstype=pdps

Take this as an example - Aggregate data of good runs.

Red mage's RDPS is 400 higher than it's ADPS (AKA PDPS + Group buffs). If we are to equalize the RDPS to Black Mage (~1900), and do this solely via potency buffs, then Red mage's ADPS is 15,400. At a glance this doesn't seem so bad, except for one thing.

The Black Mage is wholly independent of everyone else for its damage contribution. A Black Mage is always [arbitrary] number. It never changes on the group composition. It never changes on whether or not others capitalize on buff windows, for indeed it applies none.

If it's 15,000, it will always be 15,000.

If the Red Mage is 15,000, it can be 14,500. It can be 15,500. It can be [Personal +/- raid variance], and the issue is that raid variance isn't really that significant a portion of damage in the grand scheme of things. If at all levels of play the Red Mage should be in the same ball park as the Black Mage, it's a small raid variance with a high static value (Personal DPS).

And at that point, why even bother bringing the Black Mage? The Red mage will be just as good and can swing higher when your team is better.

That 700 more DPS the Black mage does (but not really - RDPS is RDPS, and they're going to be the same, if RDM won't be higher) means you kill faster. Sure, speedkilling.

When teams are pushing something along the lines of 100,000 DPS, 700 more dps would be .7%.

If your kill time with the Black Mage is 7:21 (441 seconds) then you kill time without one is 444.

I was just pointing out the model. The priority would still be for Max Raid Contribution: PDPS > Hybrid > RDPS.

In RDM's case it would be BLM> SMN > RDM.

So % max damage wise it would be something like: 100 > 96 > 94. This is just because of the raise tax model.

The ranged as an example in a "perfect world" would be something like this [assuming MCH is 100 for simplicity]

MCH > BRD > DNC
100 > 99.5 > 99

They're much more tightly knit because they have no reason not to be balanced close to each other.

In the grand scheme of things I would say something similar to this in overall rankings:

BLM: 100 [Stays the same]
SAM: 97.5 [Stays the same]
MNK: 97 [-2% from now. Lord is MNK broken.]
DRG: 96.5 [-.25% from now]
SMN: 96 [+5% from now]
NIN: 96 [-.25% from now]
MCH: 94.5 [+6% from now]
RDM: 94 [+5% from now]
BRD: 94 [+5%]
DNC: 93.5 [+4.5% from now]

What this does [aside from caster raise throwing it out of wack] is keep the same roles in similar damage, while keeping the lower roles high enough to stay relevant with the raid bonus. BLM should be king. RDM/SMN should be able to play nicely with a BLM by being able to fill the free slot typically claimed by melee [RDM will need magical embolden for that like we said.]

Edited numbers a little to show how wed need changes.

[Kabooa]

BLM: 100
SAM: 97
MNK: 96.5
DRG: 96
SMN: 96
NIN: 95.5
MCH: 94.5
RDM: 94
BRD: 94
DNC: 93.5

Now see, would everyone agree with this? I know a few who don't. They would think that still needs to be squished down further.Dancer being at something line the lines of 96-97, and then work your gradient from there.

I'm of the opinion that our current role division needs a significant revamp, though given SE's content model we're not likely to see that until a new expansion.

And not the next one.

[Zyneste]

Now see, would everyone agree with this? I know a few who don't. They would think that still needs to be squished down further.Dancer being at something line the lines of 96-97, and then work your gradient from there.

I'm of the opinion that our current role division needs a significant revamp, though given SE's content model we're not likely to see that until a new expansion.

And not the next one.

I was still editing it a little it looks more like this now, just to try and keep it as close to now as I could.

BLM: 100 [Stays the same]
SAM: 97.5 [Stays the same]
MNK: 97 [-2% from now. Lord is MNK broken.]
DRG: 96.5 [-.25% from now]
SMN: 96 [+5% from now]
NIN: 96 [-.25% from now]
MCH: 94.5 [+6% from now]
RDM: 94 [+5% from now]
BRD: 94 [+5%]
DNC: 93.5 [+4.5% from now]

What this does [aside from caster raise throwing it out of wack] is keep the same roles in similar damage, while keeping the lower roles high enough to stay relevant with the raid bonus. BLM should be king. RDM/SMN should be able to play nicely with a BLM by being able to fill the free slot typically claimed by melee [RDM will need magical embolden for that like we said.]

Edited numbers a little to show how wed need changes.

Would everyone agree? No of course not lol We all have our opinion, this is just from my collective play time/theory crafting where I would put the balance. Everything just needs to be close enough that the role bonus plus their rdps makes it a clear choice to have one of each in party.