Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Jkap_Goat]

Raise is a support spell, what are you on

[Jkap_Goat]

Let me stop you right there. A Red Mage is much more than simply a mage that uses both white and black magic. If that was all it is, then it would be nothing more than a weaker sage. No, the true identity of a RDM lies in its versatility, and that means a RDM should be competent not just in black and white spellcasting but also in direct hand-to-hand combat.

Unfortunately, this version of Red Mage is being held back from reaching its true potential because FFXIV is a game being ran by people with a bias in favor of black mage and no desire to ever allow RDM to be anything more than a gimped black mage with a rez. The development team's lack of vision and creative energy is on full display both here and with blue mage, which has been reduced to the status of a limited job as a result.

A true Red Mage would have the tools to slot into a raid in place of a healer, adequately operate as a melee attacker during times of forced movement, and maybe even take a tank buster with some special TLC from a healer who goes out of their way to keep it alive. Instead, what we got was a squishy mage that lacks the firepower of a BLM but does not have any of the true versatility required to make up for it. A cure that you should never use during battle, a raise which admittedly is nice but with a price tag that is far too high, and a fake dualcast that doesn't actually let you cast two spells in one turn (the worst offender as far as I'm concerned) don't get the job done.

Yes red mage uses black and white magic and enfeebling spells with dualcast and they use a sword. I know this but they are not stronger than a black or white mage.


From the wiki: Red Mages typically cast both Black and White Magic and can also wield swords and equip armor that normal Black and White Mages cannot. They are, in essence, among the more versatile characters of the series. However, their versatility comes at a price: their stats are usually low, and they cannot cast higher level spells or use stronger equipment. They can learn many spells, but not the strongest, and equip some heavy armor, but not all of it though they are often relegated to cloth armor.

The Red Mage is a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none. In certain games, Red Mages have a special ability such as Dualcast which boosts their spell casting efficiency. The standard Red Mage attire consists of red, black, and white clothing, including a red cloak with white or black trimmings, black boots and a red cavalier hat with a white feather


I know what a red mage is, I play it in FFXI

[Wayfinder3]

Yes red mage uses black and white magic and enfeebling spells with dualcast and they use a sword. I know this but they are not stronger than a black or white mage.


From the wiki: Red Mages typically cast both Black and White Magic and can also wield swords and equip armor that normal Black and White Mages cannot. They are, in essence, among the more versatile characters of the series. However, their versatility comes at a price: their stats are usually low, and they cannot cast higher level spells or use stronger equipment. They can learn many spells, but not the strongest, and equip some heavy armor, but not all of it though they are often relegated to cloth armor.

The Red Mage is a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none. In certain games, Red Mages have a special ability such as Dualcast which boosts their spell casting efficiency. The standard Red Mage attire consists of red, black, and white clothing, including a red cloak with white or black trimmings, black boots and a red cavalier hat with a white feather


I know what a red mage is, I play it in FFXI

The problem is in what that says RDM is isn't the same as what the current RDM does.

you can't Tank anything, you'll die to Autos faster than melee
You can't Heal anything, Vercure is too weak to heal Autos, Autos hit for about 15-20k, vercure heals for 10k per GCD. you'll be HP negative everytime you try
you can't DPS much better than any other jobs
your buff doesn't work with casters and healer and your pdps doesn't compensate for that glaring flaw
Verraise is the only thing that makes red mage relevant, NOTHING else.
So tell me, what trades are you the jack of? Necromancy i guess

in 11
RDM could be a tank in niche scenarios
RDM could substitute a Healer very effectively
RDM had potent buffs and debuffs that worked raid wide (refresh being the claim to fame)

im not saying you're wrong in what RDM is, im saying your idea of what RDM should be isn't what it actually is, It's NOT a magical melee hybrid. it's a Casting DPS with an occasional melee range, it's not a enfeebler but it's at least a buffer(albeit limited), it's not a healer hybrid(cure 1 doesn't make WHM a WHM) it's certainly not a tank hybrid. this versatility you speak of doesn't exist because versatility in the holy trinity doesn't work and thats what kills RDM. it could only be a Tank/Healer/or DPS and the same is true of a job like Blue Mage. this is why they made Blue Mage a limited job because it could do way too much for them to realistically make it a DPS/Tank/Healer and RDM feels like it would also be a Limited Job because it's white magic utility is literally 1 cure, raise being on SMN means thats not even healer exclusive utility. RDM shouldn't be a limited job but it honestly feels like the job would've been more faithful as one

[Duelle]

in 11
RDM could be a tank in niche scenarios
RDM could substitute a Healer very effectively
RDM had potent buffs and debuffs that worked raid wide (refresh being the claim to infamy)

The dynamics in XI were very different, though. And seeing how RDM was pigeonholed into healing and buffing, I don't see those things as anything to celebrate. I say that as someone who until about 2 weeks ago was playing FFXI. Where despite the recent buff to Composure that tripled (!) enspell damage, we're still getting shoehorned into healing because there's not enough WHMs around and old habits die hard (the fact RDM is several tiers behind everyone else in terms of melee gear doesn't help).

Also, RDM tanking pretty much died when they nerfed enmity coefficients on enfeebles. Best you can hope for now is get a +enmity set and sub PLD for Flash.

this versatility you speak of doesn't exist because versatility in the holy trinity doesn't work and thats what kills RDM. it could only be a Tank/Healer/or DPS and the same is true of a job like Blue Mage.

The trinity is not why BLU was turned into a side activity. That job came as it did because the "learn spells from mobs" thing was more important to the devs than anything else. BLU was never a tank, and healing was limited to White Wind or something akin to it. What made it stand out is that its spells were monster skills and some were unique as they had no equivalent with the other mages (in FFVI Strago was the only mage that could deal wind and water damage, for example). BLU could have easily been implemented as a DPS caster akin to Strago, while giving it a balanced kit of spells and do the "learn spells from mobs" thing. You wouldn't be able to learn every mob skill under the sun, but that's never been a detriment to BLU's existence.

RDM feels like it would also be a Limited Job because it's white magic utility is literally 1 cure, raise being on SMN means thats not even healer exclusive utility. RDM shouldn't be a limited job but it honestly feels like the job would've been more faithful as one

As I want the idea of limited jobs to vanish and never return, I'm going to disagree here. Designing things for a trinity MMO may require some concessions. Hence why RDM being a DPS with utility is fine with me; the gameplay being spell spam 80% of the time is my main problem with it.

[Zerathor]

I feel you're really missing the point of what I meant with jack of all trades intentionally. There's more in the game than just savage.

I really have no idea what you want this job to be, but if I recall correctly, you were the person who believed rdm should have the highest rdps. That would be absurd imo.

[Maero]

The problems with RM and i guess smn are not because of blm this expansion. Blm is almost perfect and should not be nerfed, other jobs should be adjusted with gameplay, potencies, etc..
Also SE do not show bias towards blm because it is Yoshis main, did we forget how bad blm has been in the past and how smn eventually always gets buffed to be more powerful?

Truth of the matter is RM is weak AF atm and just feels painful to play.
Embolden is also not as powerful as some still try to make it sound otherwise..
I repeat myself here because how people cannot grasp reality

Most of the RM community are not looking for blm level dmg but slight buffs and tweaks to it's support.
Having been a blm main for 4 and half or so years i was well aware when switching to RM in Stormblood that it would have lower dmg.
This expansion i am DNC main but only have only ran RM @ 80 for limited content because of what i have noted above

[Wayfinder3]

I feel you're really missing the point of what I meant with jack of all trades intentionally. There's more in the game than just savage.

I really have no idea what you want this job to be, but if I recall correctly, you were the person who believed rdm should have the highest rdps. That would be absurd imo.

I’ve never once claimed RDM should have the highest rdps, not a single time, nowhere. Please tell me where you got that information from.

Also, Eureka can be rezzed bot with any healer or SMN, not just RDM, HoH has been cleared with more jobs than just RDM, Palace is the only one thats RDM exclusive to the end and even then, thats 4 year old level 60 content. but yeah you're right, the game balance shouldn't revolve around savage. we should factor in 24 man where RDM shines, except you also have 6 healers and even more possible SMNs that can also do it too. please stop perpetuating this idea that casual/old content matters for job balance. Vercure in palace of the dead shouldn't be the reason RDM has the worst position in savage raiding.

[Wayfinder3]

The dynamics in XI were very different, though. And seeing how RDM was pigeonholed into healing and buffing, I don't see those things as anything to celebrate. I say that as someone who until about 2 weeks ago was playing FFXI. Where despite the recent buff to Composure that tripled (!) enspell damage, we're still getting shoehorned into healing because there's not enough WHMs around and old habits die hard (the fact RDM is several tiers behind everyone else in terms of melee gear doesn't help).

Also, RDM tanking pretty much died when they nerfed enmity coefficients on enfeebles. Best you can hope for now is get a +enmity set and sub PLD for Flash.
The trinity is not why BLU was turned into a side activity. That job came as it did because the "learn spells from mobs" thing was more important to the devs than anything else. BLU was never a tank, and healing was limited to White Wind or something akin to it. What made it stand out is that its spells were monster skills and some were unique as they had no equivalent with the other mages (in FFVI Strago was the only mage that could deal wind and water damage, for example). BLU could have easily been implemented as a DPS caster akin to Strago, while giving it a balanced kit of spells and do the "learn spells from mobs" thing. You wouldn't be able to learn every mob skill under the sun, but that's never been a detriment to BLU's existence.
As I want the idea of limited jobs to vanish and never return, I'm going to disagree here. Designing things for a trinity MMO may require some concessions. Hence why RDM being a DPS with utility is fine with me; the gameplay being spell spam 80% of the time is my main problem with it.

BLU isn’t a real job because of its spells, Level 5 petrify, final sting, missile, explosion, white wind, are all ridiculously broken spells to give a dps tank or healer at the same time. BLU currently has quest cap for the amount of spells they have during their leveling and putting that system on endgame content would be an easy way of fixing the (I want to learn through mobs) method of giving them skills. But skills like peculiar light, waxing moon and he above mentioned ones are so broken that there is no realistic way it could have them and be apart of the trinity. RDM in the other hand is apart of the trinity, it just has nothing to separate itself as a hybrid of anything.

[Zerathor]

i'll find it if i dig deep enough. you thought for rdps it should be rdm/nin>ect.

[Wayfinder3]

i'll find it if i dig deep enough. you though for rdps it should be rdm/nin>ect.

start digging