Tactful ways to inform people that they're playing badly?

[TaleraRistain]

When you do a duty roulette with 3 other random people, you are not signing up for a take-what-you-get deal. In fact, I believe it's quite the opposite. When you sign up for a roulette, you should be agreeing to give it your all out of respect for the 3/7/23 other players you're going into the duty with..

I'm not talking about situations where clearly people are new. I'm talking about situations where people aren't trying. People are coddled in the game enough as it is, and I refuse to accept the "You queued, so you gotta deal with bad" excuse.

You have absolutely no way to tell for absolute sure that they aren't trying. You aren't in the room with them. You aren't in their head. You don't know their motivations. You only *assume* that they are out to make your day hard. You have absolutely no way to know they aren't giving it their all and it's pretentious to think that you do. Unless you run with Trusts, you aren't playing with robots. Those are people behind the screen. They derp, they have lag, they have distractions, they fat finger their rotation, and any number of things. They aren't perfect. And when you let the game randomly match you up, you are accepting that all of that can happen. If you can't handle that and need that perfection, then the game gives you an option with premades.

[Vahlnir]

You have absolutely no way to tell for absolute sure that they aren't trying. You aren't in the room with them. You aren't in their head. You don't know their motivations. You only *assume* that they are out to make your day hard. You have absolutely no way to know they aren't giving it their all and it's pretentious to think that you do. Unless you run with Trusts, you aren't playing with robots. Those are people behind the screen. They derp, they have lag, they have distractions, they fat finger their rotation, and any number of things. They aren't perfect. And when you let the game randomly match you up, you are accepting that all of that can happen. If you can't handle that and need that perfection, then the game gives you an option with premades.

You're 100% right on this. I have my own expectations, sure, but I can't really push that on others. It's not really my place to say, so that's why I never really say anything about improvements unless someone asks. I don't want to come across the wrong way since people are easily offended by just about everything nowadays. People aren't perfect, myself included, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with randoms sometimes. But I do my absolute best to be understanding and patient. I'm willing to put up with ALOT in random groups most days. If my patience has been tested to its limit I will usually just leave a group if I'm in one, then log off for awhile and come back later.

[TheForce]

Nah, I don't think that they were intending to come across that way. Personally, I didn't read it as such, and I'm a tank. lol I only wanted to clarify that sometimes things work a bit differently, which they acknowledged. It's not really a "small nitpick" though, imo. If it helps, it helps! People should never ignore good advice if it improves their performance. Well, as long as it is being given in a respectful manner at least. And if the person currently in question put it the way they did I wouldn't find it offensive. It'd be a genuine question or concern.

With all due respect, I understand that you may have not been bothered by it, but...I still would be, and when interacting with somebody, the only person's reaction that really matters in the situation is the person you're interacting with. For example, if you tell an offensive joke, some people may or may not be bothered by it, but just because some are not, doesn't mean that those who are lose the right to feel offput by it. Now of course, as far as the tank pulling thing goes, all of this is all just hypothetical, the guy didn't actually talk about me or my way of pulling, but I'm just trying to get my point across.

If someone is trying to make an unnecessary comment about my gameplay just because they want it to be essentially perfect (according to their definition of perfect), I find that to be a bit narcissistic, annoying, and intrusive. Imo, it is a small nitpick. Because if I don't stop doing it/change the way I do it, we'd still be fine. It's not as simple as "if it helps, it helps!", no...if youre trying to completely dictate/disrupt someone's comfortable playstyle because you see a few minor things you don't like (because of trivial reasons that wouldnt even have any serious effect on a run), then you're not helping, or at least not in a way that is meaningful. You're just gonna annoy your group members, your teammates, your peers.
And a team that cannot cooperate is worthless.

[Vahlnir]

With all due respect, I understand that you may have not been bothered by it, but...I still would be, and when interacting with somebody, the only person's reaction that really matters in the situation is the person you're interacting with. For example, if you tell an offensive joke, some people may or may not be bothered by it, but just because some are not, doesn't mean that those who are lose the right to feel offput by it. Now of course, as far as the tank pulling thing goes, all of this is all just hypothetical, the guy didn't actually talk about me or my way of pulling, but I'm just trying to get my point across.

If someone is trying to make an unnecessary comment about my gameplay just because they want it to be essentially perfect (according to their definition of perfect), I find that to be a bit narcissistic, annoying, and intrusive. Imo, it is a small nitpick. Because if I don't stop doing it/change the way I do it, we'd still be fine. It's not as simple as "if it helps, it helps!", no...if youre trying to completely dictate/disrupt someone's comfortable playstyle because you see a few minor things you don't like (because of trivial reasons that wouldnt even have any serious effect on a run), then you're not helping, or at least not in a way that is meaningful. You're just gonna annoy your group members, your teammates, your peers.
And a team that cannot cooperate is worthless.

There's nothing really offensive about it though. And just because someone has a playstyle that they are comfortable with, that doesn't always make it an ideal one or one that works well with others. The 2nd one is the one most people are concerned with, because it is their time being spent too. I'm of the opinion that people should always be open to improving themselves. Some people simply can't and that's okay. I don't judge. I never expect perfection. It's the ones you hear "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" or "WHO CARES?" from that I find intolerable.

Something like pulling mobs in an efficient way isn't a trivial thing. The tank dictates the pace of the run. As such, they are also responsible for their party members since they are supposed to be taking most of the punches. If other players are also taking those punches unnecessarily...that's an issue. A significant one. And that certainly warrants some advice, solicited or otherwise. When I'm not playing GNB, all I really care about is that the tank holds onto what they're supposed to be pulling. I don't care about their dps. I don't care about their rotation. I just expect someone to do the basics like holding aggro. And how a tank pulls affects how well aggro is held. Doubly so if they are new and/or don't know how their job fully works.

[TheForce]

There's nothing really offensive about it though. And just because someone has a playstyle that they are comfortable with, that doesn't always make it an ideal one or one that works well with others. The 2nd one is the one most people are concerned with, because it is their time being spent too. I'm of the opinion that people should always be open to improving themselves. Some people simply can't and that's okay. I don't judge. I never expect perfection. It's the ones you hear "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" or "WHO CARES?" from that I find intolerable.

Something like pulling mobs in an efficient way isn't a trivial thing. The tank dictates the pace of the run. As such, they are also responsible for their party members since they are supposed to be taking most of the punches. If other players are also taking those punches unnecessarily...that's an issue. A significant one. And that certainly warrants some advice, solicited or otherwise. When I'm not playing GNB, all I really care about is that the tank holds onto what they're supposed to be pulling. I don't care about their dps. I don't care about their rotation. I just expect someone to do the basics like holding aggro. And how a tank pulls affects how well aggro is held. Doubly so if they are new and/or don't know how their job fully works.

Eh, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. You made some points I liked, but also some I did not. Simply put, I can tell that our views are just different, especially when it comes to what we find offensive and what we deem to be necessary/unnecessary.

[Vahlnir]

Eh, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. You made some points I liked, but also some I did not. Simply put, I can tell that our views are just different, especially when it comes to what we find offensive and what we deem to be necessary/unnecessary.

Fair enough.

[Jybril]

There's a difference between someone straight up trolling and people performing less than average.
I was under the impression this was topic was about people who just don't do their best rotations
in a random 4 man dungeon. I haven't add any horrible experiences like the rest of you
and I can't be asked to kick every Joe, Ben and Harry that's not up to my standards.

As many others have said, chances are you're not going to see them again and I
personally don't want you to /t me after a dungeon and giving me unsolicited advice.
It's a 4 man dungeon not savage. That's just my opinion on the whole matter really.

[Hash_Browns]

You have absolutely no way to tell for absolute sure that they aren't trying. You aren't in the room with them. You aren't in their head. You don't know their motivations. You only *assume* that they are out to make your day hard. You have absolutely no way to know they aren't giving it their all and it's pretentious to think that you do. Unless you run with Trusts, you aren't playing with robots. Those are people behind the screen. They derp, they have lag, they have distractions, they fat finger their rotation, and any number of things. They aren't perfect. And when you let the game randomly match you up, you are accepting that all of that can happen. If you can't handle that and need that perfection, then the game gives you an option with premades.

We aren't talking about about people who are fat fingering, or learning new skills here. We are talking about people who are actively not trying to learn, and scolding people for handing them advice to improve.

The best example I can give is my old static had a dancer. He wasn't at all pulling his weight anywhere near what a dancer should be - and when I brought this up to someone they had mentioned that he could do more damage auto-attacking.

When I confronted him, he got in my face about it. Explained that he only failed because I wasn't calling out mechanics for him. That if I couldn't tell him what exactly he was doing wrong with a class I didn't play at the time, that I needed to keep my mouth shut. That's the type of people I'm talking about. It's very easy to spot people who AREN'T willing to learn because they do little damage, and just push buttons when we have a library worth of resources to go through for each class.

I'm in no way asking for perfection, but I am asking that people who queue into +50 content at least have the very basic understanding of the class they are playing - which seems to still be lacking in level 80 content.

[TheMightyMollusk]

*Is the only one using AOES*
You better use some AOEs or I will teleport your character into a room with a bunch of cloaked lalas and a sacrificial alter.

Free trip to the Thaumaturge's Guild?

[Vahlnir]

We aren't talking about about people who are fat fingering, or learning new skills here. We are talking about people who are actively not trying to learn, and scolding people for handing them advice to improve.