Tactful ways to inform people that they're playing badly?

[TaleraRistain]

Except you tying your shoes has nothing to do with a group effort where someone is clearly not carrying their weight. When advice is offered is usually because you're making someone elses job on the team harder.

If we let the game match us up with random folks, we're accepting that we're going to get people of all skill levels and playstyles. I've had some groups that were close to turning my hair white, but I agreed to the randomness when I signed up for a PUG. Want to dictate your environment, go with a premade.

[Hash_Browns]

If we let the game match us up with random folks, we're accepting that we're going to get people of all skill levels and playstyles. I've had some groups that were close to turning my hair white, but I agreed to the randomness when I signed up for a PUG. Want to dictate your environment, go with a premade.

When you do a duty roulette with 3 other random people, you are not signing up for a take-what-you-get deal. In fact, I believe it's quite the opposite. When you sign up for a roulette, you should be agreeing to give it your all out of respect for the 3/7/23 other players you're going into the duty with..

I'm not talking about situations where clearly people are new. I'm talking about situations where people aren't trying. People are coddled in the game enough as it is, and I refuse to accept the "You queued, so you gotta deal with bad" excuse.

[TaleraRistain]

When you do a duty roulette with 3 other random people, you are not signing up for a take-what-you-get deal. In fact, I believe it's quite the opposite. When you sign up for a roulette, you should be agreeing to give it your all out of respect for the 3/7/23 other players you're going into the duty with..

I'm not talking about situations where clearly people are new. I'm talking about situations where people aren't trying. People are coddled in the game enough as it is, and I refuse to accept the "You queued, so you gotta deal with bad" excuse.

You have absolutely no way to tell for absolute sure that they aren't trying. You aren't in the room with them. You aren't in their head. You don't know their motivations. You only *assume* that they are out to make your day hard. You have absolutely no way to know they aren't giving it their all and it's pretentious to think that you do. Unless you run with Trusts, you aren't playing with robots. Those are people behind the screen. They derp, they have lag, they have distractions, they fat finger their rotation, and any number of things. They aren't perfect. And when you let the game randomly match you up, you are accepting that all of that can happen. If you can't handle that and need that perfection, then the game gives you an option with premades.

[Vahlnir]

You have absolutely no way to tell for absolute sure that they aren't trying. You aren't in the room with them. You aren't in their head. You don't know their motivations. You only *assume* that they are out to make your day hard. You have absolutely no way to know they aren't giving it their all and it's pretentious to think that you do. Unless you run with Trusts, you aren't playing with robots. Those are people behind the screen. They derp, they have lag, they have distractions, they fat finger their rotation, and any number of things. They aren't perfect. And when you let the game randomly match you up, you are accepting that all of that can happen. If you can't handle that and need that perfection, then the game gives you an option with premades.

You're 100% right on this. I have my own expectations, sure, but I can't really push that on others. It's not really my place to say, so that's why I never really say anything about improvements unless someone asks. I don't want to come across the wrong way since people are easily offended by just about everything nowadays. People aren't perfect, myself included, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with randoms sometimes. But I do my absolute best to be understanding and patient. I'm willing to put up with ALOT in random groups most days. If my patience has been tested to its limit I will usually just leave a group if I'm in one, then log off for awhile and come back later.

[Hash_Browns]

You have absolutely no way to tell for absolute sure that they aren't trying. You aren't in the room with them. You aren't in their head. You don't know their motivations. You only *assume* that they are out to make your day hard. You have absolutely no way to know they aren't giving it their all and it's pretentious to think that you do. Unless you run with Trusts, you aren't playing with robots. Those are people behind the screen. They derp, they have lag, they have distractions, they fat finger their rotation, and any number of things. They aren't perfect. And when you let the game randomly match you up, you are accepting that all of that can happen. If you can't handle that and need that perfection, then the game gives you an option with premades.

We aren't talking about about people who are fat fingering, or learning new skills here. We are talking about people who are actively not trying to learn, and scolding people for handing them advice to improve.

The best example I can give is my old static had a dancer. He wasn't at all pulling his weight anywhere near what a dancer should be - and when I brought this up to someone they had mentioned that he could do more damage auto-attacking.

When I confronted him, he got in my face about it. Explained that he only failed because I wasn't calling out mechanics for him. That if I couldn't tell him what exactly he was doing wrong with a class I didn't play at the time, that I needed to keep my mouth shut. That's the type of people I'm talking about. It's very easy to spot people who AREN'T willing to learn because they do little damage, and just push buttons when we have a library worth of resources to go through for each class.

I'm in no way asking for perfection, but I am asking that people who queue into +50 content at least have the very basic understanding of the class they are playing - which seems to still be lacking in level 80 content.

[Vahlnir]

We aren't talking about about people who are fat fingering, or learning new skills here. We are talking about people who are actively not trying to learn, and scolding people for handing them advice to improve.

[Deithwen]

We aren't talking about about people who are fat fingering, or learning new skills here. We are talking about people who are actively not trying to learn, and scolding people for handing them advice to improve.

The best example I can give is my old static had a dancer. He wasn't at all pulling his weight anywhere near what a dancer should be - and when I brought this up to someone they had mentioned that he could do more damage auto-attacking.

When I confronted him, he got in my face about it. Explained that he only failed because I wasn't calling out mechanics for him. That if I couldn't tell him what exactly he was doing wrong with a class I didn't play at the time, that I needed to keep my mouth shut. That's the type of people I'm talking about. It's very easy to spot people who AREN'T willing to learn because they do little damage, and just push buttons when we have a library worth of resources to go through for each class.

I'm in no way asking for perfection, but I am asking that people who queue into +50 content at least have the very basic understanding of the class they are playing - which seems to still be lacking in level 80 content.

I can't agree more with you. I have seen people not trying at all, hiding behind excuses like "chill out it's a lv77 dungeon" and yet we've been here for more than 30mins because they did not bother to aoe, do their rotation or even perfrom the mecanics. I've been called an elitist because I called out someone who died on the final boss and released on purpose, and was just standing at the entrance while we were doing the hard work. It took almost 15 minutes to kill it, I was the only person actually trying to pull my weight and compensated for all their mistakes. I even had to place markers on the ground so they could at least survive what was coming (and they were not new at all, they all had some lv80 jobs already).

This was a leveling dungeon, level 77. And yet, I was called names, I was told that those persons had a life and paid bills hence I should chill out. As if all the persons who can actutally play properly were just a bunch of nerds, failure of humanity who should be grateful that those "real life workers" and "bills payers" bless them of their presence. Sure mate, I work and pay bills too, what's your point?

This is just an example, I have had tons of similar situations since I have been playing.

Fortunately, I have also had plenty of great runs, and met a lot of nice people. But all in all, we need to stop this entitled mentality and have a way to make people understand that any group content is a common effort shared among the team.

[RoyalBeef]

This was a leveling dungeon, level 77. And yet, I was called names, I was told that those persons had a life and paid bills hence I should chill out. As if all the persons who can actutally play properly were just a bunch of nerds, failure of humanity who should be grateful that those "real life workers" and "bills payers" bless them of their presence. Sure mate, I work and pay bills too, what's your point?

Ilove that. Imagine someone joining a sports club, and whenever there is a match they just stand around doing jack shit or kicking the ball across the sideline every time. Then when someone asks them to play properly they go "I have a life and I pay bills bro, chill out, I don't have time to learn how to play this." lol

[Jybril]

We aren't talking about about people who are fat fingering, or learning new skills here. We are talking about people who are actively not trying to learn, and scolding people for handing them advice to improve.

The best example I can give is my old static had a dancer. He wasn't at all pulling his weight anywhere near what a dancer should be - and when I brought this up to someone they had mentioned that he could do more damage auto-attacking.

When I confronted him, he got in my face about it. Explained that he only failed because I wasn't calling out mechanics for him. That if I couldn't tell him what exactly he was doing wrong with a class I didn't play at the time, that I needed to keep my mouth shut. That's the type of people I'm talking about. It's very easy to spot people who AREN'T willing to learn because they do little damage, and just push buttons when we have a library worth of resources to go through for each class.

I'm in no way asking for perfection, but I am asking that people who queue into +50 content at least have the very basic understanding of the class they are playing - which seems to still be lacking in level 80 content.

The difference in this post is, you were talking to someone in your static and doing savage where you have to be optimal.
You weren't telling a random what to do in a random 4 man dungeon where being optimal isn't needed.

[AnimaAnimus]

The difference in this post is, you were talking to someone in your static and doing savage where you have to be optimal.
You weren't telling a random what to do in a random 4 man dungeon where being optimal isn't needed.

It's not about being optimal. But even if you are in a roulette, if you are literally not doing even the most basic things than that is an issue. Ice mages, rdm who ignore their phys rotation, smns who don't dot, bards who don't use songs, melee who don't aoe because they simply do not want to learn or just have the mentality of "its just a roulette/4 man" I think that is something that should be addressed, tactfully or course, and then if the issue persists or they cop an attitude, vote kick should be initiated. I wouldn't deal with a dnc like that in a random roulette either. Its just so unnecessary.

Just because we are doing content that you feel is "less than" does not mean that is how you should perform, just cause. I don't put 100% into roulettes either, but I use proper rotations and don't just do a sub par job because its "just" a 4 man.

I cant believe we are arguing about this. We are not asking for perfection, but at least have a basic grasp of what you are doing and put at least a little effort into it. Tapping a single button doesn't cut it, idk what content you are doing.