Dark Knight is playable, but BORING

[TheForce]

Erm what? Pld is in no way more intricate and engaging then the other 3. Mp management is actually far easier on PLD then DRK beceause everytime I've needed mp on pld i have it. On DRK not so much.

So, what I said was PLD was more intricate and engaging than the Dark Knight, not GNB and WAR. Please don't put words in my mouth. And, it is.

Objectively speaking, PLD just has more skills than DRK, so that fact alone means that PLD just has more tools = more options = greater complexity. Secondly, DRK uses their MP for a whopping 3 skills, and chances are you're really only going to use your MP for one of those skills most of the time (TBN). This is interesting? PLD also has two single target combo enders , opposed to DRK's one, with one of PLD's combos being a D.O.T.

Also, lots of PLD's meaningfully interact with one another. The only example of this that DRK has that I can think of is the TBN -> Edge/Flood interaction.

Whereas with PLD you have the previously mentioned Req. which is just brilliant. Functioning as a sort of Super Saiyan state, it requires a sense of MP management to even activate, while boosting the attack power of your spells, healing potency, AND removing the cast time of them.

Then you have Intervention, which can be augmented depending on the defensive CDs you have active at the time (if Rampart is active, Int. will be a 20% shield. If Sentinel is active, it will be a 25% shield. If both are active, it will be a 35% shield).

And also, on top of having more skills than DRK, PLD also has more USABLE skills than DRK. When I play DRK, I next to never use Living Dead, but I use HG multiple times a run. I rarely use Dark Mind since it's so situational, same with Dark Missionary.

[kazzel120]

So, what I said was PLD was more intricate and engaging than the Dark Knight, not GNB and WAR. Please don't put words in my mouth. And, it is.

Objectively speaking, PLD just has more skills than DRK, so that fact alone means that PLD just has more tools = more options = greater complexity. Secondly, DRK uses their MP for a whopping 3 skills, and chances are you're really only going to use your MP for one of those skills most of the time (TBN). This is interesting? PLD also has two single target combo enders , opposed to DRK's one, with one of PLD's combos being a D.O.T.

Also, lots of PLD's meaningfully interact with one another. The only example of this that DRK has that I can think of is the TBN -> Edge/Flood interaction.

Whereas with PLD you have the previously mentioned Req. which is just brilliant. Functioning as a sort of Super Saiyan state, it requires a sense of MP management to even activate, while boosting the attack power of your spells, healing potency, AND removing the cast time of them.

Then you have Intervention, which can be augmented depending on the defensive CDs you have active at the time (if Rampart is active, Int. will be a 20% shield. If Sentinel is active, it will be a 25% shield. If both are active, it will be a 35% shield).

And also, on top of having more skills than DRK, PLD also has more USABLE skills than DRK. When I play DRK, I next to never use Living Dead, but I use HG multiple times a run. I rarely use Dark Mind since it's so situational, same with Dark Missionary.

You think i don't know how pld works? Jesus man i have it at 80 and its tool kit is mostly DPS with 2 defensive cool downs and sheltron is unreliable because of how oath works. More skills does not = more complex sorry if thats the case then GNB is far more complex then PLD and even that isn't hard to play lol

And yes DRK has to manage mp way more then PLD does because of oh idk TBN for tank busters.

I swear people are so up on PLD and GNB dps they act like its the best lol.

[Kabooa]

So, what I said was PLD was more intricate and engaging than the Dark Knight, not GNB and WAR. Please don't put words in my mouth. And, it is.

You're free to think that.

Paladin certainly has the more complete design philosophy as it hasn't been thrown on its head every expansion.

It, however, is not more complex. I don't think it's less complex, both the jobs have their own challenges to deal with in optimization, but at the level you're describing, it's auto pilot. Most jobs are, but Paladin especially is.

[Capn_Goggles]

You're free to think that.

Paladin certainly has the more complete design philosophy as it hasn't been thrown on its head every expansion.

It, however, is not more complex. I don't think it's less complex, both the jobs have their own challenges to deal with in optimization, but at the level you're describing, it's auto pilot. Most jobs are, but Paladin especially is.

I'm going to have to agree on this one. Paladin is about as rote and auto-pilot as it gets. Do you have requiescat and nearly full MP? Spam holy spirit and then empty your MP with Confiteor, now without cast times. Did you just finish requiescat burst window? Pop Fight or Flight and then push out your combo, spam atonement when you get sword oath stacks, and keep your DoTs up until Requestbat is up and repeat the cycle. It's cool, I enjoy using it, but I'm not going to call it complex by any stretch of the imagination. For me, Dark Knight has more to juggle since I've got my eye on three offensive resources at once and I need to avoid capping two of them; I can toss up TBN on myself to laugh at a tankbuster and convert it 1-1 into raw offense, or I can drop it on a squishy who is hurting and we're about to get nailed by a raid-wide and STILL turn it into offense.

I think the current DRK is less interesting than its HW iteration, don't get me wrong, but it's miles ahead of "smash dark arts on every attack"-knight in stormblood, and I don't think it gets enough credit. Plus its capstone ability is pure unmitigated fanservice and I greatly enjoy it.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Plus its capstone ability is pure unmitigated fanservice and I greatly enjoy it.

If you are talking about Living Shadow then I have to disagree because I absolutely hate it because I would gladly take more GCDs over 50 gauge spender that sits on a 120 second recast that takes way too long for it to start doing anything and is basically a glorified DoT which a bit too nice to call it that, because it's more of a glorified Salted Earth... and I prefer sustained DPS without double weaving over bursty double weaves that forces me to spam 1-2-3 any day...

[JeromeMercedes]

leveled all tanks to 80 and I most say I enjoy them all but PLD.

[KrausBrave]

Just to throw my own two cents into the hat, after putting more time into the new Dark Knight [Mind, that I played all iterations of it], this variant feels just uninspired.

Delirium, like many, has said, it just Inner Release, but worst. When you used Inner Release into Fell Cleaves. Even though you were doing the exact same thing. It FELT amazing. You could FEEL each cleave just bite into the enemy and swing back into it, and the fact that it crits EVERY time. Just added to the power fantasy. 5 blood spillers... Just doesn't feel right. It doesn't auto-crit, and the animation for it really doesn't flow like Fell Cleave.

Blood Weapon, being gutted and has an odd cooldown just puts a bad taste in my mouth every time I use it, with such a low duration. 10 seconds to gain 10 more blood per attack and a bit more MP... on a 60s cooldown? If I am not wrong that's about 2 blood spillers and an Edge (maybe)? every 50 seconds. And you can't EXTEND the duration either?

Among other things that get pointed at, and yes you can say "It works". But when better options loom over it. Which is every other job, why not have it changed? Make DRK the stance dance class. Give it back Blood Price, and the old Blood Weapon.

Blood Price being like camouflage for GNB, but instead of giving it a parry chance increase, they get mana back per hit they take, or better based on how much damage they take, they gain more MP. That then can have its duration slightly increased with Delirium.

Blood Weapon gives Haste and Mana on hit. Which just like blood price, can have its duration increased by Delirium.

I don't know why they still have Salted Earth, it's so forgotten, I rather they give us a single target dot back. And give back spammable abyssal drains instead that apply an AOE dot, that drain based on the ticks applied.

I don't know... just an idea. But right now, if you keep saying that DRK is fine, please tell what does it do that other tanks cannot do better? What does IT have that other tanks can't compete with? PLD is the best Defense Tank, GNB is the best Damage, and right now Warrior is the best middle of that. And DRK drags itself to keep up.

[Kabooa]

What does IT have that other tanks can't compete with?

Blackest Night and style.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Blood Price being like camouflage for GNB, but instead of giving it a parry chance increase, they get mana back per hit they take, or better based on how much damage they take, they gain more MP. That then can have its duration slightly increased with Delirium.

Not going to happen. The devs removed every "counter attack" ability but Vengence to reduce the differences in dps output between MTing and OTing. Blood Price is unlikely to come back in a form that can increase DpS.

[RadicalPesto]

lI don't know... just an idea. But right now, if you keep saying that DRK is fine, please tell what does it do that other tanks cannot do better? What does IT have that other tanks can't compete with? PLD is the best Defense Tank, GNB is the best Damage, and right now Warrior is the best middle of that. And DRK drags itself to keep up.

Paladin is actually the worst defense tank by a small margin, by virtue of having one less personal cooldown compared to the other tanks and Hallowed Ground having an immensely long cooldown. What makes Paladin good is having an extra raid mitigation cooldown in Passage of Arms, great DPS, and the current raid having a lot of shared tankbusters, which makes Intervention shine. TBN singlehandedly makes DRK the best at personal mitigation, even with DRK's invincibility button being, at the moment, kind of bad.