Is Blm gonna be the only accepted range option now? :(

[dinnertime]

We cleared titan savage in the first 3 weeks, so ignore whatever anyone is telling you. Meta isnt everything.

This kind of mentality is ignorant. People can totally clear high-end content without meta comps/jobs, but it doesn't mean there isn't any issues with the underperforming jobs and job balance.
It doesn't take a genius to see that the DPS job balance right now is wack. It's not that deep.

[CKNovel]

We cleared titan savage in the first 3 weeks, so ignore whatever anyone is telling you. Meta isnt everything.

I'm really a broken recorder now:
1) We have to step out of the "Good enough to clear content" box.
2) Low DPS jobs punishes your harder than if you had a classic MNK/BLM/DRG comp if you make any mistakes. Which is supposed to be the opposite with "mobile" and "flexible" jobs.
3) It makes no sense than a grey BLM/MNK will do more DPS than a blue SMN, the tax raise is simply not worth.
4) Same as 3, you can sacrifice casts as BLM for the sake of mobility and you will still do more damage than a very good ranged.

[Capn_Goggles]

If the expectation is that you can't play the job you want after prog because you're supposed to swap to the "meta approved" caster then guess what? That means the meta matters, a TON, way more than it should. Just because it has gone on since before now doesn't make it okay.

And again you just choose to take what you want out of the post rather than seeing the forest for the trees. I am saying that RDM getting dropped post-prog is not a Shadowbringers feature: it has been a consistent problem with the job since they fixed the mana exploit because of its insane raise tax. This is not a good thing, again, the key phrase here is: CONSISTENT. PROBLEM. And you have no idea what his group wanted, the player probably dropped RDM of their own volition to go to BLM since they now know the fights and they share 99% of their gear.

His overall point was that "meta isn't everything" because he cleared with a red mage and not a black mage. Does that mean it wasn't a little bit harder? debatable, but not the point he was making.

[AikenDrum]

Is there really anyone who's thinking meta means "impossible to clear with anything else"?

[Katie_Kitty]

Is there really anyone who's thinking meta means "impossible to clear with anything else"?

Nope but it sure is a convenient strawman for people who want to keep classes unbalanced for some reason.

And again you just choose to take what you want out of the post rather than seeing the forest for the trees. I am saying that RDM getting dropped post-prog is not a Shadowbringers feature: it has been a consistent problem with the job since they fixed the mana exploit because of its insane raise tax. This is not a good thing, again, the key phrase here is: CONSISTENT. PROBLEM. And you have no idea what his group wanted, the player probably dropped RDM of their own volition to go to BLM since they now know the fights and they share 99% of their gear.

His overall point was that "meta isn't everything" because he cleared with a red mage and not a black mage. Does that mean it wasn't a little bit harder? debatable, but not the point he was making.

I don't know why you keep bringing up how long it has been going on. It's irrelevant. You say "maybe they did it of their own volition", but the simple fact of the matter is that "dude just switch to BLM" is incredibly common and it is more likely that they were told that they should be switching rather than that they simply decided on their own that they really didn't want to play the job they learned the fight on. You may feel more comfortable with the assumption that people always switch because they want to but that frankly has not been my experience. People are told that's what they should be doing.

Also sharing raid gear between RDM and blm does not work very well. RDM and SMN yes but a BLM wearing RDM gear will be missing a ton of spell speed and a RDM wearing BLM gear will likely be missing a ton of crit.

[Capn_Goggles]

Black Mages only need as much spell speed as they are comfortable with, they can meld literally anything.

[Sabora_Makingai]

You have your RDM switching to BLM. Claiming now "meta isn't everything" doesn't pass the laugh test.

Yeah, AFTER the clear. Meaning that you dont need one if your only goal is to clear every week. Before the RDM we had a BRD so even with 0 caster its still clear-able. That was the point I was trying to make, sry if it didnt read that way.

[Myon88]

Black Mages only need as much spell speed as they are comfortable with, they can meld literally anything.

Realistically that tends to be around 1500-2000 otherwise you start hating your life. Do you know how much spellspeed I want as a summoner? 0. That's right, zero.

You know hey this is actually pretty relevant to me because for my clear in week 1 I showed up with a fully pentamelded crafted set with melds tuned for my summoner. Have you ever tried playing black mage at base sps? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Needless to say I had to make a second set just for my blm, their poor tuning actually cost me several million gil.

[ForteNightshade]

I edited my post when I realized I mixed up Alphascape and Deltascape. Regardless, grossly oversimplifying it as "just buff all the weak jobs and/or nerf all the strong jobs" is just silly. Samurai, Black Mage, and Machinist should be referenced as the control jobs as they offer literally nothing besides the damage they deal, and should be fighting each other for the top of the DPS chart. In descending order should come jobs offering progressively more utility and ease of play while maintaining a fairly (and shallow) linear decline in overall DPS contribution. SMN's potencies are probably fine, I think addressing issues such as Bahamut/Phoenix moving for some inexplicable reason and being unable to weave pet actions would bring it closer to BLM on a fight-situational basis. For RDM removing the decay on Embolden would probably bring it up a fairly sizable amount since it naturally lines up every other trick attack. Samurai is probably going to have their day in the sun when they get the Shoha rework to actually put it in rotation. MCH just needs some raw potency increases on pretty much everything but drill and air anchor, because they SHOULD be fighting with BLM and SAM for top DPS.

And so on and so forth.

First and foremost, Machinist can never rival Black Mage and Samurai in damage due to their free mobility. While the "tax" shouldn't be anywhere near as high as it is currently, there still needs to be one otherwise it and the Range as a whole have a distinct advantage over Melee. It may not be as impactful now but a tier like Alphascape would be brutal. That aside, how can you ignore Summoner's potencies are fine? Bahamut running around like a lost puppy and some weaving issues are not going to account for 1,200 rDPS. Bear in mind, this is Raid DPS we're discussing not Personal DPS. There shouldn't be a significant gap because the former credits all buffs Summoner applies. The same applies to Red Mage. Embolden won't make up the enormous difference in rDPS it has compared to Black Mage. The difference should be somewhere in the ballpark of what Monk and Dragoon have against each other right now. While Monk is undeniable stronger—arguably too strong—it's separation from Dragoon makes it so neither has a real advantage over the other.

[Sunako]

Have you ever tried playing black mage at base sps?

I clear titan on my blm nearly zero spell speed and zero crafted gear, only weapon bring some spell speed. And i can say, it still do 1.5k+ more dps than smn and i would not say it is totally horrible play either, maybe opener is bit tight.