Whm Idea

[Silver-Strider]

WHM in its current state really only has Fluid Aura to work with in terms of opening its DPS options, short of adding new or discontinued abilities to it. The rest of the toolkit is fairly straight forward so it would be hard to try and add additional effects to them.

Personally, I'd like if Fluid Aura was changed into a frontal cone AoE with a slow effect on a 60s CD so that SCH could get back Shadow Flare but barring that, I can't really see much leeway in its current toolkit for making DPSing as a WHM more engaging. I could think of other things for WHM, like adding charges to DB, reducing the CD on PoM down to 120 or having PI mitigate damage while up, but that's about it really.

[Acece]

I think the current tool kit is a good base, but I feel like it needs more. Whm only really feels satisfying when you get a misery out during raid buffs or a good assize that heals and dps, every other time you're really just spaming glare. They could make more of whms damage spells heal like assize or make whm more cd based, like giving temperance a damage buff. but for the most part i kinda want them to redesign the whole dps rotation (the whole 4 spells) of whm.

[Hatstand]

Personally, I'd like if Fluid Aura was changed into a frontal cone AoE with a slow effect on a 60s CD so that SCH could get back Shadow Flare but barring that, I can't really see much leeway in its current toolkit for making DPSing as a WHM more engaging. I could think of other things for WHM, like adding charges to DB, reducing the CD on PoM down to 120 or having PI mitigate damage while up, but that's about it really.

What does one have to do with the other?

I see this on a bunch of different comments “if SCH got bane back WHM would need something too”, etc. WHM deserves more toys, but there doesn’t have to be a 1:1 on all the moves. If there were, where’s SCH’s assize? Where’s our misery? Where’s WHM’s chain strategem?

It’s okay for the healers to be different. It’s not okay for one of them to be significantly weaker, but you can get around that with changing potencies.

If anything, I’d say it’s not okay for them all to be the same. Homogenisation is generally a bad thing, and given how much time healers spend dpsing aging homogenised dps kits would make them (and does already, to a large extent) make them feel the same to play.

If you want fluid aura to be a cone aoe, that’s fine. It sounds like fun. If SCHs want Shadowflare back, that’s fine too, but the one has nothing to do with the other.

[MartaDemireux]

What does one have to do with the other?

I see this on a bunch of different comments “if SCH got bane back WHM would need something too”, etc. WHM deserves more toys, but there doesn’t have to be a 1:1 on all the moves. If there were, where’s SCH’s assize? Where’s our misery? Where’s WHM’s chain strategem?

It’s okay for the healers to be different. It’s not okay for one of them to be significantly weaker, but you can get around that with changing potencies.

If anything, I’d say it’s not okay for them all to be the same. Homogenisation is generally a bad thing, and given how much time healers spend dpsing aging homogenised dps kits would make them (and does already, to a large extent) make them feel the same to play.

If you want fluid aura to be a cone aoe, that’s fine. It sounds like fun. If SCHs want Shadowflare back, that’s fine too, but the one has nothing to do with the other.

Think of it this way: WHMs Assize is the answer to SCHs Fey Blessing + Chain Strategem. It deals the damage that SCH allows other players to deal and is an oGCD heal. Of course it's not totally equal in terms of numbers, but it is what it is. SCHs Afflatus Misery is present in having so many oGCDs to heal with between Aetherflow and Fairy, that they don't need to use as many GCDs to heal - Afflatus Misery is only a catch-up ability to offset the missed DPS from needing to use the GCD to heal.

The true culprit is Holy. The other healers don't have AoE mitigation like that anymore. AST lost its stun on Celestial Opposition, and SCH lost it's Shadowflare. If WHM had Fluid Aura upgraded to Flood or something and it applied Slow to the targets it hit... well AST and SCH would really be out in the cold then for dungeon groups. The easiest answer to this is removing stun from Holy, but the best answer to this is giving AST and SCH some sort of AoE-DPS-as-mitigation spell.

[Hatstand]

Think of it this way: WHMs Assize is the answer to SCHs Fey Blessing + Chain Strategem. It deals the damage that SCH allows other players to deal and is an oGCD heal. Of course it's not totally equal in terms of numbers, but it is what it is. SCHs Afflatus Misery is present in having so many oGCDs to heal with between Aetherflow and Fairy, that they don't need to use as many GCDs to heal - Afflatus Misery is only a catch-up ability to offset the missed DPS from needing to use the GCD to heal.

The true culprit is Holy. The other healers don't have AoE mitigation like that anymore. AST lost its stun on Celestial Opposition, and SCH lost it's Shadowflare. If WHM had Fluid Aura upgraded to Flood or something and it applied Slow to the targets it hit... well AST and SCH would really be out in the cold then for dungeon groups. The easiest answer to this is removing stun from Holy, but the best answer to this is giving AST and SCH some sort of AoE-DPS-as-mitigation spell.

I wasn't seriously asking where SCH's assize is. I was trying to point out that it's ridiculous to ask for every ability that one healer has to have a parallel in a specific other move in another healer. I also don't even think it's as straightforward as every healer needs a crowd control aoe move. Crowd control is generally mitigation. So is shielding. What every healer needs (in this situation) is a way to keep dealing damage to groups while also maintaining the group's health. That can be done by mitigating damage through crowd control (WHM), through instant dps moves and ability heals (like SCH), or... I don't know how ASTs are supposed to do it at the moment.

If SCHs got Shadowflare back, you'd have to nerf Art of War to keep their damage even, and then you could do something else to bolster WHM aoe mitigation and keep the incoming damage even. Maybe you make holy stun last a little longer, so WHMs can keep incoming damage stopped for a little longer. Maybe you give them a new move. Maybe you give them 3. The point is that you can design systems to be different and have different tools to achieve the same goals effectively, which is something I think you understand, based on your post.

The point being that just adding a move to one healer doesn't necessitate that every other healer get a move that does something similar, so long as they are all capable of dealing with the same situations (in 4 man content, anyway. It'd be quite nice if each healer had some gaps in 8 man content so that the healers could synergise better, but that'd be very hard to do well with 3 healers without making one composition completely meta).