Whm Idea

[Silver-Strider]

What does one have to do with the other?

I see this on a bunch of different comments “if SCH got bane back WHM would need something too”, etc. WHM deserves more toys, but there doesn’t have to be a 1:1 on all the moves. If there were, where’s SCH’s assize? Where’s our misery? Where’s WHM’s chain strategem?

It’s okay for the healers to be different. It’s not okay for one of them to be significantly weaker, but you can get around that with changing potencies.

If anything, I’d say it’s not okay for them all to be the same. Homogenisation is generally a bad thing, and given how much time healers spend dpsing aging homogenised dps kits would make them (and does already, to a large extent) make them feel the same to play.

If you want fluid aura to be a cone aoe, that’s fine. It sounds like fun. If SCHs want Shadowflare back, that’s fine too, but the one has nothing to do with the other.

It's more so to nip any potential complaints in regards to balance from other healers before they can start.

[MartaDemireux]

What does one have to do with the other?

I see this on a bunch of different comments “if SCH got bane back WHM would need something too”, etc. WHM deserves more toys, but there doesn’t have to be a 1:1 on all the moves. If there were, where’s SCH’s assize? Where’s our misery? Where’s WHM’s chain strategem?

It’s okay for the healers to be different. It’s not okay for one of them to be significantly weaker, but you can get around that with changing potencies.

If anything, I’d say it’s not okay for them all to be the same. Homogenisation is generally a bad thing, and given how much time healers spend dpsing aging homogenised dps kits would make them (and does already, to a large extent) make them feel the same to play.

If you want fluid aura to be a cone aoe, that’s fine. It sounds like fun. If SCHs want Shadowflare back, that’s fine too, but the one has nothing to do with the other.

Think of it this way: WHMs Assize is the answer to SCHs Fey Blessing + Chain Strategem. It deals the damage that SCH allows other players to deal and is an oGCD heal. Of course it's not totally equal in terms of numbers, but it is what it is. SCHs Afflatus Misery is present in having so many oGCDs to heal with between Aetherflow and Fairy, that they don't need to use as many GCDs to heal - Afflatus Misery is only a catch-up ability to offset the missed DPS from needing to use the GCD to heal.

The true culprit is Holy. The other healers don't have AoE mitigation like that anymore. AST lost its stun on Celestial Opposition, and SCH lost it's Shadowflare. If WHM had Fluid Aura upgraded to Flood or something and it applied Slow to the targets it hit... well AST and SCH would really be out in the cold then for dungeon groups. The easiest answer to this is removing stun from Holy, but the best answer to this is giving AST and SCH some sort of AoE-DPS-as-mitigation spell.

[Hatstand]

Think of it this way: WHMs Assize is the answer to SCHs Fey Blessing + Chain Strategem. It deals the damage that SCH allows other players to deal and is an oGCD heal. Of course it's not totally equal in terms of numbers, but it is what it is. SCHs Afflatus Misery is present in having so many oGCDs to heal with between Aetherflow and Fairy, that they don't need to use as many GCDs to heal - Afflatus Misery is only a catch-up ability to offset the missed DPS from needing to use the GCD to heal.

The true culprit is Holy. The other healers don't have AoE mitigation like that anymore. AST lost its stun on Celestial Opposition, and SCH lost it's Shadowflare. If WHM had Fluid Aura upgraded to Flood or something and it applied Slow to the targets it hit... well AST and SCH would really be out in the cold then for dungeon groups. The easiest answer to this is removing stun from Holy, but the best answer to this is giving AST and SCH some sort of AoE-DPS-as-mitigation spell.

I wasn't seriously asking where SCH's assize is. I was trying to point out that it's ridiculous to ask for every ability that one healer has to have a parallel in a specific other move in another healer. I also don't even think it's as straightforward as every healer needs a crowd control aoe move. Crowd control is generally mitigation. So is shielding. What every healer needs (in this situation) is a way to keep dealing damage to groups while also maintaining the group's health. That can be done by mitigating damage through crowd control (WHM), through instant dps moves and ability heals (like SCH), or... I don't know how ASTs are supposed to do it at the moment.

If SCHs got Shadowflare back, you'd have to nerf Art of War to keep their damage even, and then you could do something else to bolster WHM aoe mitigation and keep the incoming damage even. Maybe you make holy stun last a little longer, so WHMs can keep incoming damage stopped for a little longer. Maybe you give them a new move. Maybe you give them 3. The point is that you can design systems to be different and have different tools to achieve the same goals effectively, which is something I think you understand, based on your post.

The point being that just adding a move to one healer doesn't necessitate that every other healer get a move that does something similar, so long as they are all capable of dealing with the same situations (in 4 man content, anyway. It'd be quite nice if each healer had some gaps in 8 man content so that the healers could synergise better, but that'd be very hard to do well with 3 healers without making one composition completely meta).

[Acece]

I've came up with some ideas for whm. What if whm benefited more from raid buffs then other healers like sam. They could give whm a small burst every min and a large nuke every two min. the small nuke or a small spell speed buff that could be built with glares/dia or just be a cool down and misery could be built with using your lilies like it does now but can store up to two so you can't waste a Lilly. They also need to make PoM 2 min so it can align with buffs.

[odym82]

I definitely agree that the Lily system is, well, boring. It fills over time and you use it and get a Blood Lily.
I still like WHM above the other healers atm but it is definitely a bit dull (also can we all agree that Holy is just sad and underwhelming)

[miraidensetsu]

For me, a WHM rotation should be similar to RDM's one, based on a priority system. But without worring too much with procs.

[Lola_bunny]

Do you think WHM gets the least complaints typically by virtue of being the least screwed with (at least with this expansion)?

The cynic in me thinks since SCH and AST got a lot more meddling they have more threads and will end up getting buffed back up while WHM sits in the back. That aside I don't think a more complex dps rotation would be a good idea. I think the best sort of dps heals can have is something that can be easily slipped between heals like Dia so you can get in a bit of damage even in the few fights that are more healing intensive. One of my main complaints with WHM is the lack of offensive ways to build Misery and I think a nice option would be say an afflatus DoT or one that spread Dia perhaps just something so I'm not burning lilies on over healing just to not have 3. Or if the afflatus absolutely can't have any damage outside of Misery maybe an ability that buffs in some manner.

Honestly my experience on the matter, less so with SCH (least experience with them), all the heals are fine at the moment but that's it just fine. Completely serviceable like a piece of toast perfectly edible but crying out for something more like a lovely jam or some butter.

[Acece]

Honestly now that I've had more time sit on it, I just want some more ways to optimize on outside of less gcd healing.
sch has a little bit with its management of atherflow and whm has a little less with its Lilly optimization.

Ast on the other hand, has so much you can to do with its card to optimize. learning people burst phases and when you should minor arcana or the hectic sleeve draw window during mechanics. it feels like there is always something I can do to improve my ast compared to my whm.

Not to say that ast doesn't have it's problems, but I want whm to have anything nearly as engaging as ast cards.
Or I'm just being overly negative about it. idk