Two months into Shadowbringers, do you find yourself still using Trusts?

[soulseeker78]

I used them as I was going through the MSQ and have only done Holminster on an alt job. I don't see myself using them again.

The problem I see is with the AI for the party members. The healer rarely does dps, the tank pulls single packs at a time and those take forever to die because I'm the only one who does AoE. The other DPS and tank seem to never use AoE. Thus dungeons that should take 15-20 minutes take 30-45.

Even as a DPS I can usually queue and complete the dungeon faster in DF than I can using the trust system.

I want to think this should be easily fixable, but I don't know what the coding on the back-end looks like.

[EdwinLi]

No. I ran the first dungeon with them a few times, but they never leveled out of it. I didn't need anything from the dungeon, so I just stopped messing with it and them.

They adjusted the EXP gain from trust Dungeons last month so now it will only take 3 dungeon runs to gain a level per Trust which will cause Trust to level faster than a Player's Job if the player does not have that 50% exp bonus.

You will only need 1 Job now to level 3 out of the 6 current Trust companions to max and without the Player's 50% rest EXP, the Trust will actually out level the player if they only use Trust Dungeons to level 1 Job.

I used them as I was going through the MSQ and have only done Holminster on an alt job. I don't see myself using them again.

The problem I see is with the AI for the party members. The healer rarely does dps, the tank pulls single packs at a time and those take forever to die because I'm the only one who does AoE. The other DPS and tank seem to never use AoE. Thus dungeons that should take 15-20 minutes take 30-45.

Even as a DPS I can usually queue and complete the dungeon faster in DF than I can using the trust system.

I want to think this should be easily fixable, but I don't know what the coding on the back-end looks like.

Trust is not meant to be a alternative to a Player party that can run the Dungeon in 15 - 20 minutes but a alternate experience being a Solo Story Instance theme experience. Trust is designed to have the characters act within the normal Story instance behavior thus they will not be as super confident Hero that can take on a army by themselves like a Player group.

Healer trust do attack very often but they prioritise healing above attacking (as a Healer should). I have paid attention to the Trust actions and attacking is very natural for them to a point I can say they attack enemies more often than most Player Healers I encounter in PF.

If you're looking for a alternative to a Player group that can run the Dungeon within 15 to 20 minutes then you're looking at Trust the wrong way.


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Now back on topic.....

I think expanding on the Trust system more into a Solo RPG experience will certainly benefit it more by introducing new systems into it to make it as if you are managing them similar to how other FF game manage their Allies in the party through skill trees and maybe introducing Solo LB to Trust Groups.

I am not looking for Trust to become a replacement to Players party but a different experience itself that has it follow more towards being Storyline driven since that is what Trust current seem to focus on being a system that makes MSQ dungeons more into a Story Instance. If players want to play the game normally for a normal speedrun group they do everyday in PF and/or with pre-set player groups they already have that source being PF and pre-set player group.

I strongly believe Trust will be a good way to provide a different way to experience MSQ dungeons that can provide a unique experience rather than just a AI controlled Party to make it more as if you're playing a FF game and not a MMO only.

Maybe introduce some of the Trust Companions to have more unique actions against Bosses such as how each trust Companion had a unique way to handle the lvl 73 MSQ final boss mechanic as well with some may even prevent a Boss from using a Mechanic where a Normal Player group party would just deal with the boss normally.

Trust has a bit of story driven uniqueness already from the charater's story driven dialogues based on who you bring with you and some will only perform said dialogue if or if not a certain member is in the group.

[MomomiMomi]

Because this is an MMORPG and the game should be designed to encourage group play and socialization with solo options being clearly inferior alternatives for those who are determined not to group for whatever reason. If people want an optimized single-player experience, they should go play a single-player game.

Why not both?

Also, the majority of the main scenario says you're wrong. Or did you forget all those solo instances?

[duvvvv]

Also one reason I want to give them another try is to AFK some of the dungeons just exploring around for good screenshots...

this and like the earlier post about leveling up my least-fave jobs xD

[EdwinLi]

Why not both?

Also, the majority of the main scenario says you're wrong. Or did you forget all those solo instances?

I think you're looking at Trust the wrong way being that you expect them to become a alternative to Player parties with them having the same mentality of real life players being "Get this Dungeon done as fast as possible within 15 to 20 minutes or less."

Trust groups are more designed to give the MSQ dungeon the Story instance experience rather than a "Simulation" of a Speedrun group that can get the dungeon done within 15 to 20 minutes using only Mass Pulls of 3 mobs or more with 2 to 3 AoE skills spam between boss fight and being able to kill bosses within 3 to 2 minutes.

This is why I am more in line with the improvemeant to trust being more RPG related than just pure stat boost to get things done faster related because the intended experience between Trust and Player Parties is not intended to be the same experience. Trust experience is more story experience related while player party is more Player community experience related which differs greatly since Story experience related aspect of Trust is to follow the Dungeon under the expect rules of a Story Instance being one encounter at a time with the NPC's including unique habits, skills, and story related dialogue to the MSQ Dungeon lore and themselves (The trust do have some unique skills only they can use such as Thancred will sometimes jump into the air to head slash a tall boss enemy and if "Minfilia" is in the Trust Team with Thancred they will perform a Unity Attack where "Minfilia" thorws a Special cartridge to Thancred so he can perform his strongest attack) while Player Party experience is more focus on the community and what the party deem how they should handle the content as a group such as taking things slowly for the new player to learn or rush through the dungeons as fast as possible to get things over with faster without a care to the dungeon's detail nor lore since it is just another Dungeon run to get over with.

Yes the RPG upgrading as Trust level up elements added into improving Trust Companions as a group and individually will still reduce the time it takes to complete dungeons (most likely within 20 to 30 minutes based on how lazy or active the player is rather than the normal 25 to 35 minutes) but Trust is a story instance experience that takes on the enemy mobs differently from what Players have set themselves to act.

[Alleo]

Trusts are definitely better designed. They actually put effort into them. Meanwhile, squadrons were made OP simply so that they wouldn't have to put a ton of effort into designing them. I just wish trusts were better designed and just as good as the squadrons. Either increase their damage, make them AoE, or both.

I agree with you. Maybe as a bonus for leveling them up to 80 you unlock further abilities with them. This way we would have more to it other than getting their old outfits back. (I just imagine the WoL sitting them down and trying to explain what they are doing wrong which would then include at least one: you dont pay my sub- option.)

Because this is an MMORPG and the game should be designed to encourage group play and socialization with solo options being clearly inferior alternatives for those who are determined not to group for whatever reason. If people want an optimized single-player experience, they should go play a single-player game.

Then why is it possible to solo PotD/HoH and get exp for it? Why is it possible to level up all jobs with only squadrons who are at least as fast if not faster than normal groups and who have no downsides to the loot too? (And give poetics at lvl 60). Why should the trusts be the one not allowed to do what is already done ingame? And they still could lock this ability behind getting them to 80 so that it does take some work.

It would just be an option for those of us who (for various reasons) dont want to always run with real people. I still do roulette, simply because it gives a nice exp boni. But other than that I am right now getting all jobs to at least 60 with squadrons, roulettes and hunting licenses (also solo content with lots of exp behind it) and after that will exchange squadrons with trusts as soon as possible, maybe with some PotD or HoH in between.

Yes the RPG upgrading as Trust level up elements added into improving Trust Companions as a group and individually will still reduce the time it takes to complete dungeons (most likely within 20 to 30 minutes based on how lazy or active the player is rather than the normal 25 to 35 minutes) but Trust is a story instance experience that takes on the enemy mobs differently from what Players have set themselves to act.

So instead of just increasing some of the power of their skills (maybe as Momomi said to around 80% of an avarage player) which would probably not take much work, you want them to have a whole skill tree (something we dont even have as a player) and other stuff just for RPG purposes that will at the end be around the same as just the increase but with much more money and time involved. Honestly that time and money would have been imo better spent to increase their reach into older content.

[EdwinLi]

So instead of just increasing some of the power of their skills (maybe as Momomi said to around 80% of an avarage player) which would probably not take much work, you want them to have a whole skill tree (something we dont even have as a player) and other stuff just for RPG purposes that will at the end be around the same as just the increase but with much more money and time involved. Honestly that time and money would have been imo better spent to increase their reach into older content.

The addition of trust into older content below 5.0 has already been taken into consideration by Yoshi-P and developers with them already saying that they know it will be important to add into the game to help newer players with the older content so it is way past the "discuss it more to make it happen" Stage and in the "We're working on it" Stage. Right now that topic can be considered in the "When will happen" stage now so we can only wait until they get that implamented into the game through a future content update or expansion.

[Ryaz]

I haven't fully leveled them yet, but I can picture myself using them in the future for leveling DPS when I use up all my daily roulette or want a specific gear set so I don't have to compete with other players. Also a good way to get the new minions and orchestration rolls. They can also be good for practicing jobs you aren't too confident with.

[Nixxe]

Why not both?

Also, the majority of the main scenario says you're wrong. Or did you forget all those solo instances?

Because you can't have both. There is a single pool of players.

Then why is it possible to solo PotD/HoH and get exp for it? Why is it possible to level up all jobs with only squadrons who are at least as fast if not faster than normal groups and who have no downsides to the loot too? (And give poetics at lvl 60). Why should the trusts be the one not allowed to do what is already done ingame? And they still could lock this ability behind getting them to 80 so that it does take some work.

It would just be an option for those of us who (for various reasons) dont want to always run with real people. I still do roulette, simply because it gives a nice exp boni. But other than that I am right now getting all jobs to at least 60 with squadrons, roulettes and hunting licenses (also solo content with lots of exp behind it) and after that will exchange squadrons with trusts as soon as possible, maybe with some PotD or HoH in between.

If Squadrons are faster than normal duty finder groups, they need to be nerfed.

[Fynlar]

With enough effort put into squadrons, they do become faster than normal groups, yep. Instant queue, too, of course.

Nothing is going to change in that regard because they don't care anymore. They can only do old ass content that WE don't care about anymore, either. They knew exactly what they were doing when they gave squadron members the ability to get the ridiculous offense/defense buffs they can get; it was just them saying "have fun, go nuts".

All they did was fix the Engage exploit because... well, it was clearly an exploit.

It's pretty much the same reason why they allow us to go undersized parties for previous xpac EX trials and whatnot and still get loot. It's old news at that point.