Is Blm gonna be the only accepted range option now? :(

[MaelleRiou]

It'll matter more in groups where not beating the enrage is more of a concern. Particularly pug groups.

[Taranok]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

[Akiudo]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

funny how melees and blackmage right now are anywhere from 1000-1500 dps above the other ranged than, also "barely being useful do to a tacked on buff" still sucks ass, the 1% buff is indeed their to combat imbalances, but to even have a chance to do so it has to clearly do so, not just by 50 points or so if you are lucky, if the buff pushes the group up by 750 dps than at the end of that at least half of that should end up as actual contribution to the group, not band aid fix to your sub par dps

[ForteNightshade]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

Just to emphasise how horrendous job balance is on the DPS side of things. The current top speed kill for Titan had 92,000 total rDPS. 1% of that is 920. Black Mage, currently, does 1,600 more rDPS than Machinist. In fact, the Black Mage in this log only parsed 76% yet contributed 550 more rDPS than the 99% Bard. Pragmatically speaking, it is straight up better to bring two Black Mages than any of the Range.

Now I don't say this to support locking out the Range. Frankly, I want it seen because I want to hope the dev team realizes how bad things are.

Never, ever, ever give the time of day to players of this game that lock out specific jobs. Unless you are absolutely pushing the envelope in terms of speed, you and the vast majority of people who play this game are very unlikely to be in a position where min-maxing party composition to this extent actually means anything.

I would rather play with people who are competent at whatever their preferred job is, and have a decent attitude while playing. Competence and a willingness to learn means far more than just having the right composition for 99.999999999999999999999 percent of the time.

Normally, I would agree. I still do... but dismissing this as merely ignorant players falling for the "meta" disregards how bad things actually are. A group running DRG/MNK/BLM/BRD can afford more mistakes than a group running SAM/DNC/MCH/SMN. Look at my reply above. A 76% Black Mage beat a 99% Bard, and by no small margin. That is absolutely absurd.

[IruruCece]

So with several topics talking about how low dps the physical ranged and Smn and rdm are in comparison to the rest of the jobs, do you think people are only gonna allow Blms for groups now and ignore all other ranged jobs? I know since Shb release, on Famfrit, no one has been wanting physical ranged dps and have only wanted melee and casters, but with the 5.08 now out and a bigger gap in dps apparently created, I'm guessing it'll only be time before even Smn and Rdm will be not wanted. I've been playing Mch and have gotten to a competent level of skill with it (apparently I parse 10k+ dps from what I'm told), but what hope do I have if I'm gonna have an even harder time now that the dps gap is getting bigger. I've been trying to play Blm, but I suck at managing moving with it while I'm able to dodge most mechanics as Mch unless I'm unfamiliar with the mechanic or I have a derp moment.

I'm just getting flustered since I finally have a job I can play well and love and it is apparently going into the trash in favor of a job I'm the worst at. x_x

Never, ever, ever give the time of day to players of this game that lock out specific jobs. Unless you are absolutely pushing the envelope in terms of speed, you and the vast majority of people who play this game are very unlikely to be in a position where min-maxing party composition to this extent actually means anything.

I would rather play with people who are competent at whatever their preferred job is, and have a decent attitude while playing. Competence and a willingness to learn means far more than just having the right composition for 99.999999999999999999999 percent of the time.

[Dogempire]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

Except why get a 1% buff that gives 750 dps when you can bring an equally geared and skilled black mage and gain 2000+ dps

[Dogempire]

Never, ever, ever give the time of day to players of this game that lock out specific jobs. Unless you are absolutely pushing the envelope in terms of speed, you and the vast majority of people who play this game are very unlikely to be in a position where min-maxing party composition to this extent actually means anything.

I would rather play with people who are competent at whatever their preferred job is, and have a decent attitude while playing. Competence and a willingness to learn means far more than just having the right composition for 99.999999999999999999999 percent of the time.

You're right on that, but there's also the issue of the fact that there's 4 or 5 dps that are so much more superior over the others that it's not even funny.

I'll give you an example, 2 weeks ago we cleared E3S, and while I'm not the best machinist, I can easily push out 90th percentile dps, not accounting for gear, of which I don't have nearly as much as the hardcore raiders with first or second week E4S clears.

We hit enrage and wiped at 1% the first time we saw enrage, now if I was a black mage main or a dragoon main, my hypothetical 90th percentile dps would be 1103 - 1268 rdps higher at the same performance level.

In that situation job choice was the difference between a wipe and hitting enrage, when you're capable of pushing your job near its limits the dps difference begins to widen a lot, and that's where the issue lies. High end content becomes easier to beat enrage if you play jobs that are superior in damage simply because there's such a gap between jobs. This becomes especially more apparent when you're butting your head against an enrage timer and popping tinctures for that extra 1% dps boost (i.e. 750 dps vs gaining 1000+ dps from maining a better job simply because of potencies) everyone needs to clear.

In an ideal game the selfish dps would be topping the rdps charts, followed by the melee dps, and the caster and ranged dps being somewhat even with less than 300 rdps between the best and worst like they are now.

[Vallhallix]

Does square not realize they discourage people from playing altogether? No one wants to feel forced to play a class they don't enjoy. I personally know a couple who went back to WoW just because their class was screwed in this patch. I remember the situation back in SB which made me neglect to play the entire post content. How many patches does it take for them to not keep making the same mistakes

[Dogempire]

Does square not realize they discourage people from playing altogether? No one wants to feel forced to play a class they don't enjoy. I personally know a couple who went back to WoW just because their class was screwed in this patch. I remember the situation back in SB which made me neglect to play the entire post content. How many patches does it take for them to not keep making the same mistakes

Pretty much this, it kills my enjoyment of playing machinist when I see a black mage outdpsing me by almost 3k even though my gear is better

I can accept black mage being the highest dps class, but not by a whole 2-3k, that's just plain ridiculous and makes me think of maining a different class just because of the huge imbalance.

[IruruCece]

Pretty much this, it kills my enjoyment of playing machinist when I see a black mage outdpsing me by almost 3k even though my gear is better

I can accept black mage being the highest dps class, but not by a whole 2-3k, that's just plain ridiculous and makes me think of maining a different class just because of the huge imbalance.

The solution is to bring classes up to those heights, then, which they can and should do.

Your raid didn't fail because you weren't bringing more DPS. Your raid failed because collectively it dropped the ball somewhere, and you're the only person who is willing to try and place blame somewhere (on yourself) for it. Don't do that. If you're a Machinist kicking that much butt, better than most players in the game period, other players in your group need to also be stepping up.

Sure, you could look at the math and say "but what if I was a BLM", which plenty of other players have done. But the bottom line is NONE of the content in FF14 is hard enough to require specific comps, unless you're playing at the very edge of speed and overall performance in hopes of being a day 1/week 1 clear for Savage content. People ought to be able to play the jobs they like, and wonder of wonders, the game does allow for it.

Which is why I say again "screw those guys." A competent player who is willing to learn and keep plugging away at a challenge with a good attitude means a hell of a lot more to most folks than some jerk playing a "better" job. Bring the other jobs in line with those that are working well right now. I think the hard working mchs, nins, brds, dncs, rdms, and even the occasional Salty Sam, deserve it.