Is Blm gonna be the only accepted range option now? :(

[Cetonis]

People who lock BLM + triple melee in their PFs / static recruitments are fools. But, you will see them.

You can't hide the job imbalances from people - word will get around, especially now that the rDPS graph looks oh so convenient, and the asterisks of "but a great player of any job is fine, but everything can clear, but the party bonuses closes much of the gap, but this but that" never survive the sea of word of mouth.

Unfortunately, as predictable as this outcome has been since launch, SE only seems inclined to respond to balance issues once things are actually in flames, so we're left to stick it out and wait for them to get their heads out of the sand.

And yet, the more people keep their chins up and keep playing the weaker dps, the less likely it is that SE will think there's a problem. "Lots of people are happy playing these jobs, so things are fine." We've seen it happen to i.e. WHM in the past.

So there are some circles arguing that it's actually good to stoke the flames and discourage people from playing ranged and etc., because SE's given us little cause to trust that they'll get their act together otherwise. A fine mess this is.

[MPNZ]

Only to like players who worship the meta without understanding why, or players who want to min-max in order to speed run or world-firsts. It'd basically why tanks would meld strength or collect DPS gear in the previous expansions versus emulators who see it as to why they totally suck and not that there is no need to have large HP pools once they've reached a certain percentile, perfected group coordination, and memorized the boss patterns that incoming damage has been mitigated enough that lower vitality and higher strength becomes preferred. VIT for pugs/prog, and STR for when everyone knows what to do, is sync, and pushing a clear/speed-run

[Wyti]

Most of the locked jobs were for the first few weeks of savage where PF parties had legitimates issues to meet enrage requirement, so locking jobs was seen as a solution.

Now with the recent melee buff I can see groups locking 2 melee spots because they are so far ahead of everyone else. But with 2 melee and the current gear you can meet enrage with any 6 players left.

Speedkill group on the other hand will probably figure out something like 3 melee + BLM or 2 melee + 2 BLM and I hope they do because thats sadly necessary to help SE notice the issue we have right now.

[MaelleRiou]

It'll matter more in groups where not beating the enrage is more of a concern. Particularly pug groups.

[Taranok]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

[Akiudo]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

funny how melees and blackmage right now are anywhere from 1000-1500 dps above the other ranged than, also "barely being useful do to a tacked on buff" still sucks ass, the 1% buff is indeed their to combat imbalances, but to even have a chance to do so it has to clearly do so, not just by 50 points or so if you are lucky, if the buff pushes the group up by 750 dps than at the end of that at least half of that should end up as actual contribution to the group, not band aid fix to your sub par dps

[ForteNightshade]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

Just to emphasise how horrendous job balance is on the DPS side of things. The current top speed kill for Titan had 92,000 total rDPS. 1% of that is 920. Black Mage, currently, does 1,600 more rDPS than Machinist. In fact, the Black Mage in this log only parsed 76% yet contributed 550 more rDPS than the 99% Bard. Pragmatically speaking, it is straight up better to bring two Black Mages than any of the Range.

Now I don't say this to support locking out the Range. Frankly, I want it seen because I want to hope the dev team realizes how bad things are.

Never, ever, ever give the time of day to players of this game that lock out specific jobs. Unless you are absolutely pushing the envelope in terms of speed, you and the vast majority of people who play this game are very unlikely to be in a position where min-maxing party composition to this extent actually means anything.

I would rather play with people who are competent at whatever their preferred job is, and have a decent attitude while playing. Competence and a willingness to learn means far more than just having the right composition for 99.999999999999999999999 percent of the time.

Normally, I would agree. I still do... but dismissing this as merely ignorant players falling for the "meta" disregards how bad things actually are. A group running DRG/MNK/BLM/BRD can afford more mistakes than a group running SAM/DNC/MCH/SMN. Look at my reply above. A 76% Black Mage beat a 99% Bard, and by no small margin. That is absolutely absurd.

[Dogempire]

There will always, always be at least 1 viable class from every archetype, because having 1 of each archetype increases the group's DPS by 1% just for having it around. Unless an archetype is so bad that it literally drags down the entire party's group more than it merely existing raises the party's DPS collectively, then you will see every group running it. And a class would have to be pretty bad considering 1% represents something like 750 DPS by itself collectively to the group.

And as far as I can tell, Dancer, arguably the worst class in the game, isn't bad enough to justify ignoring them in favor of a slightly more optimal comp because of that 1% DPS increase it brings just by existing. The same increase BLM brings, SAM brings, GNB brings, and WHM, just for existing.

They changed the group buff to encourage diversity, and while classes certainly need help, that 1% collectively is still huge.

Except why get a 1% buff that gives 750 dps when you can bring an equally geared and skilled black mage and gain 2000+ dps

[IruruCece]

So with several topics talking about how low dps the physical ranged and Smn and rdm are in comparison to the rest of the jobs, do you think people are only gonna allow Blms for groups now and ignore all other ranged jobs? I know since Shb release, on Famfrit, no one has been wanting physical ranged dps and have only wanted melee and casters, but with the 5.08 now out and a bigger gap in dps apparently created, I'm guessing it'll only be time before even Smn and Rdm will be not wanted. I've been playing Mch and have gotten to a competent level of skill with it (apparently I parse 10k+ dps from what I'm told), but what hope do I have if I'm gonna have an even harder time now that the dps gap is getting bigger. I've been trying to play Blm, but I suck at managing moving with it while I'm able to dodge most mechanics as Mch unless I'm unfamiliar with the mechanic or I have a derp moment.

I'm just getting flustered since I finally have a job I can play well and love and it is apparently going into the trash in favor of a job I'm the worst at. x_x

Never, ever, ever give the time of day to players of this game that lock out specific jobs. Unless you are absolutely pushing the envelope in terms of speed, you and the vast majority of people who play this game are very unlikely to be in a position where min-maxing party composition to this extent actually means anything.

I would rather play with people who are competent at whatever their preferred job is, and have a decent attitude while playing. Competence and a willingness to learn means far more than just having the right composition for 99.999999999999999999999 percent of the time.

[Dogempire]

Never, ever, ever give the time of day to players of this game that lock out specific jobs. Unless you are absolutely pushing the envelope in terms of speed, you and the vast majority of people who play this game are very unlikely to be in a position where min-maxing party composition to this extent actually means anything.

I would rather play with people who are competent at whatever their preferred job is, and have a decent attitude while playing. Competence and a willingness to learn means far more than just having the right composition for 99.999999999999999999999 percent of the time.

You're right on that, but there's also the issue of the fact that there's 4 or 5 dps that are so much more superior over the others that it's not even funny.

I'll give you an example, 2 weeks ago we cleared E3S, and while I'm not the best machinist, I can easily push out 90th percentile dps, not accounting for gear, of which I don't have nearly as much as the hardcore raiders with first or second week E4S clears.

We hit enrage and wiped at 1% the first time we saw enrage, now if I was a black mage main or a dragoon main, my hypothetical 90th percentile dps would be 1103 - 1268 rdps higher at the same performance level.

In that situation job choice was the difference between a wipe and hitting enrage, when you're capable of pushing your job near its limits the dps difference begins to widen a lot, and that's where the issue lies. High end content becomes easier to beat enrage if you play jobs that are superior in damage simply because there's such a gap between jobs. This becomes especially more apparent when you're butting your head against an enrage timer and popping tinctures for that extra 1% dps boost (i.e. 750 dps vs gaining 1000+ dps from maining a better job simply because of potencies) everyone needs to clear.

In an ideal game the selfish dps would be topping the rdps charts, followed by the melee dps, and the caster and ranged dps being somewhat even with less than 300 rdps between the best and worst like they are now.