Is Blm gonna be the only accepted range option now? :(

[Vallhallix]

Does square not realize they discourage people from playing altogether? No one wants to feel forced to play a class they don't enjoy. I personally know a couple who went back to WoW just because their class was screwed in this patch. I remember the situation back in SB which made me neglect to play the entire post content. How many patches does it take for them to not keep making the same mistakes

[Dogempire]

Does square not realize they discourage people from playing altogether? No one wants to feel forced to play a class they don't enjoy. I personally know a couple who went back to WoW just because their class was screwed in this patch. I remember the situation back in SB which made me neglect to play the entire post content. How many patches does it take for them to not keep making the same mistakes

Pretty much this, it kills my enjoyment of playing machinist when I see a black mage outdpsing me by almost 3k even though my gear is better

I can accept black mage being the highest dps class, but not by a whole 2-3k, that's just plain ridiculous and makes me think of maining a different class just because of the huge imbalance.

[IruruCece]

Pretty much this, it kills my enjoyment of playing machinist when I see a black mage outdpsing me by almost 3k even though my gear is better

I can accept black mage being the highest dps class, but not by a whole 2-3k, that's just plain ridiculous and makes me think of maining a different class just because of the huge imbalance.

The solution is to bring classes up to those heights, then, which they can and should do.

Your raid didn't fail because you weren't bringing more DPS. Your raid failed because collectively it dropped the ball somewhere, and you're the only person who is willing to try and place blame somewhere (on yourself) for it. Don't do that. If you're a Machinist kicking that much butt, better than most players in the game period, other players in your group need to also be stepping up.

Sure, you could look at the math and say "but what if I was a BLM", which plenty of other players have done. But the bottom line is NONE of the content in FF14 is hard enough to require specific comps, unless you're playing at the very edge of speed and overall performance in hopes of being a day 1/week 1 clear for Savage content. People ought to be able to play the jobs they like, and wonder of wonders, the game does allow for it.

Which is why I say again "screw those guys." A competent player who is willing to learn and keep plugging away at a challenge with a good attitude means a hell of a lot more to most folks than some jerk playing a "better" job. Bring the other jobs in line with those that are working well right now. I think the hard working mchs, nins, brds, dncs, rdms, and even the occasional Salty Sam, deserve it.

[Dogempire]

Snip

Are buffs to jobs not what we're advocating for?

And yes, we wiped that time because of too many deaths, HOWEVER if we had more of the top half of the dps roster rather than the bottom half (We have a dancer, a red mage, a machinist, and a monk) we wouldn't have wiped, the dps would be high enough to beat the enrage all factors remaining the same simply because certain jobs are superior to others.

The issue isn't that we can't clear content because the jobs are bad, the issue is that we can make a lot more mistakes and clear with good jobs vs making much less mistakes and barely clearing with the bad jobs. The game should be balanced around having around the same amount of difficulty to clear content regardless of your party comp, which it isn't.

My point about bringing a black mage is that not having one puts a lot more stress on having everyone perform well, where having one you can afford more deaths and still make a clear.

I'm not thinking about the meta, I'm thinking about what I can contribute as a dps player for my group towards getting our clear, screw putting blame on others, and one of the choices should NOT be to switch to one of the overtuned classes instead of doing something like learning a new opener or making better use of raid buffs, both of which will only give me maybe a few hundred dps at most, compared to gaining 1000+ switching to a melee job or black mage.

[Metalwrath]

Are buffs to jobs not what we're advocating for?

And yes, we wiped that time because of too many deaths, HOWEVER if we had more of the top half of the dps roster rather than the bottom half (We have a dancer, a red mage, a machinist, and a monk) we wouldn't have wiped, the dps would be high enough to beat the enrage all factors remaining the same simply because certain jobs are superior to others.

The issue isn't that we can't clear content because the jobs are bad, the issue is that we can make a lot more mistakes and clear with good jobs vs making much less mistakes and barely clearing with the bad jobs. The game should be balanced around having around the same amount of difficulty to clear content regardless of your party comp, which it isn't.

My point about bringing a black mage is that not having one puts a lot more stress on having everyone perform well, where having one you can afford more deaths and still make a clear.

I'm not thinking about the meta, I'm thinking about what I can contribute as a dps player for my group towards getting our clear, screw putting blame on others, and one of the choices should NOT be to switch to one of the overtuned classes instead of doing something like learning a new opener or making better use of raid buffs, both of which will only give me maybe a few hundred dps at most, compared to gaining 1000+ switching to a melee job or black mage.

All you've managed to point out is that by having the best dps raid setup it would have carried your team through mechanics.As this is still the issue which caused your party to fail.If you'd doen the mechanics properly you wouldnt have hit the enrage.This is why i hate raid metas.I understand it for world first clears etc but at the end of the day these raids are supposed to be about player skill and not doing more dps so you dont have to learn mechanics properly.This mentality has gone on for way too long.
Also by this stage most people will have their deepshadow weapon and atleast a deepshadow chest which is a significant boost for the raids.At this stage there is no excuse for any raid party to be claiming they need only certain setups or cant clear without that set up.This just means they are bad.

[Tanker4444]

Pretty much this, it kills my enjoyment of playing machinist when I see a black mage outdpsing me by almost 3k even though my gear is better

I can accept black mage being the highest dps class, but not by a whole 2-3k, that's just plain ridiculous and makes me think of maining a different class just because of the huge imbalance.

I wouldn´t worry about it. After all, during SB MCH needed a buff and it got it. Just gotta wait until patch 5.5 !

[Capn_Goggles]

I wouldn´t worry about it. After all, during SB MCH needed a buff and it got it. Just gotta wait until patch 5.5 !

You're getting tunnel-vision. There's a massive difference between Stormblood balancing and Shadowbringers balancing, the most important of which is that you don't have DPS utility enforcing its own meta. In stormblood, a buff to a ranged DPS meant a buff to dragoon, because if you have a dragoon you're always going to bring ranged, and you're ALWAYS going to have a dragoon because he makes every job stronger. And of course, because you have dragoon and ranged DPS get a free 5% damage buff, you're going to bring bard because it's ranged, also bard buffs everyone elses' crit rate and damage, which is just inflating the power level again. Buffing machinist in Stormblood wasn't *just* buffing machinist, but an indirect buff to Dragoon and Bard who were already oppressively strong.

Compare this to Shadowbringers where you no longer have piercing/slashing debuff, and BRD no longer universally buffs everyone just by virtue of existing, and now you can finally start tweaking jobs at an individual level without worrying about the insane cascading effect of buffing one minute part of a job. Furthermore, it wasn't a "buff" MCH needed in stormblood, it always had a guaranteed spot in the speedkill meta, it needed an entire rework because the stormblood kit was complete nonsense and was zero fun to play.

Pretty much this, it kills my enjoyment of playing machinist when I see a black mage outdpsing me by almost 3k even though my gear is better

I can accept black mage being the highest dps class, but not by a whole 2-3k, that's just plain ridiculous and makes me think of maining a different class just because of the huge imbalance.

Black Mage is in a fine spot. This is the first time a DPS with zero utility deals enough damage to justify its own existence rather than being flat out useless because it's completely overshadowed by raid-wide damage buffs. The real problem is that the bottom half of the jobs are underperforming to a pathetic degree. I'd also like to point that despite being closer to the bottom of the DPS charts, SMN only does 800 rDPS less than BLM at the 50th percentile, and only 1200 less at the 95th percentile, so if a black mage is overshadowing you by 2-3k they're just playing better and/or are better geared (or you're a dancer)... Theoretically anyway, because I would never think about looking at aggregated date from an unsanctioned game addon.

I'm not saying this to insult your skill level either, only that you shouldn't be discouraged from playing your job because of Black Mage being exactly where it's supposed to be at.

[Kabooa]

it needed an entire rework because the stormblood kit was complete nonsense and was zero fun to play.

Machinist in Stormblood only had an irreconcilable difference with required latency to play effectively.

The kit itself was solid, and fun's subjective, but I personally found it a ton of fun after the learning curve.

[Dogempire]

You're getting tunnel-vision. There's a massive difference between Stormblood balancing and Shadowbringers balancing, the most important of which is that you don't have DPS utility enforcing its own meta. In stormblood, a buff to a ranged DPS meant a buff to dragoon, because if you have a dragoon you're always going to bring ranged, and you're ALWAYS going to have a dragoon because he makes every job stronger. And of course, because you have dragoon and ranged DPS get a free 5% damage buff, you're going to bring bard because it's ranged, also bard buffs everyone elses' crit rate and damage, which is just inflating the power level again. Buffing machinist in Stormblood wasn't *just* buffing machinist, but an indirect buff to Dragoon and Bard who were already oppressively strong.

Compare this to Shadowbringers where you no longer have piercing/slashing debuff, and BRD no longer universally buffs everyone just by virtue of existing, and now you can finally start tweaking jobs at an individual level without worrying about the insane cascading effect of buffing one minute part of a job. Furthermore, it wasn't a "buff" MCH needed in stormblood, it always had a guaranteed spot in the speedkill meta, it needed an entire rework because the stormblood kit was complete nonsense and was zero fun to play.



Black Mage is in a fine spot. This is the first time a DPS with zero utility deals enough damage to justify its own existence rather than being flat out useless because it's completely overshadowed by raid-wide damage buffs. The real problem is that the bottom half of the jobs are underperforming to a pathetic degree. I'd also like to point that despite being closer to the bottom of the DPS charts, SMN only does 800 rDPS less than BLM at the 50th percentile, and only 1200 less at the 95th percentile, so if a black mage is overshadowing you by 2-3k they're just playing better and/or are better geared (or you're a dancer)... Theoretically anyway, because I would never think about looking at aggregated date from an unsanctioned game addon.

I'm not saying this to insult your skill level either, only that you shouldn't be discouraged from playing your job because of Black Mage being exactly where it's supposed to be at.

I mean I agree with you that black mage is at where it's supposed to be, it's just that selfish dps vs selfish dps machinist isn't even in the running in a competition. Machinist should be a good 1000 dps higher than it currently is at at the very least.

As for the better geared, it was Titania so basically a giant punching bag with phases of small amounts of movement, but still ridiculous regardless. I had a 470 wep and was 462 in item level while they had full pentamelded 450 gear and a 475 wep, so not really better geared.

[ForteNightshade]

Black Mage is in a fine spot. This is the first time a DPS with zero utility deals enough damage to justify its own existence rather than being flat out useless because it's completely overshadowed by raid-wide damage buffs. The real problem is that the bottom half of the jobs are underperforming to a pathetic degree. I'd also like to point that despite being closer to the bottom of the DPS charts, SMN only does 800 rDPS less than BLM at the 50th percentile, and only 1200 less at the 95th percentile, so if a black mage is overshadowing you by 2-3k they're just playing better and/or are better geared (or you're a dancer)... Theoretically anyway, because I would never think about looking at aggregated date from an unsanctioned game addon.

I'm not saying this to insult your skill level either, only that you shouldn't be discouraged from playing your job because of Black Mage being exactly where it's supposed to be at.

This is actually incorrect. Black Mage either matched or outright exceeded Summoner by Alphascape, and consequently, saw far more use than it ever throughout Stormblood. The issue was FFlogs maintained a pDPS ranking, thus it always benefited your parse to have utility jobs. With the recent shift to rDPS, that is no longer an issue. Nevertheless, Black Mage isn't fine. No job should be leading another by over a thousand rDPS. "Only 1,200? at 95th percentile"? That's absurd. What use does Summoner have when it gets utterly demolished despite rDPS purposely accounting for both jobs' overall contributions? Attempting to dismiss these numbers because you dislike their source is, frankly, disingenuous at best... unless you have statistics to offer. Now that isn't to say FFlogs is the end all be all, but it's what we have publicly available. And it's what the vast majority of the raid community uses.