5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

[ForteNightshade]

There's a simple solution for Square-Enix: Don't make every fight have an enrage timer. Enrage timers force the player base, particularly the part that does PUG raids, to care more about DPS than utility.

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

[HyoMinPark]

It's a liiiiiiiittle early to start seeing threads complaining about classes not yet being perfectly balanced as all things should be when I don't think there's been a time where that has ever been the case, not to mention only days after a relatively minor set of QoL changes. But we are already seeing threads about how ranged DPS roles are going to be TOTALLY EXCLUDED from ALL CONTENT FOREVER (until the next patch maybe) so I don't think waiting and seeing is the strong suit of some folks.

While jobs may have still had imbalances in the past, they are nothing like the current imbalances between the top 3 damage dealers (MNK, BLM, DRG), and the ones at the bottom (SMN, RDM, DNC, BRD, MCH). There are anywhere from 1,000 rDPS to 2,000 rDPS differences between the jobs with very little reason for such a large gap to exist. The balance could definitely be much better, and the only way to draw attention to it—short of simply boycotting the jobs as players did with MNK and NIN—is to make threads about it, and then hope the developers read them and take them seriously. This isn’t even to mention how SAM still deals less in terms of rDPS compared to a melee that has utility (MNK).

As for the physical ranged thread, I don’t recall anywhere in the opening post of that thread that states that the role would be “EXCLUDED from ALL CONTENT FOREVER”—just that they will start seeing exclusions in more than just Savage via the trickle down effect metas tend to have. Some of the physical ranged have already been excluded from Savage since the tier dropped—DNC being one of them. They were locked out of early Titan progression and clear runs due to their lower damage leaving less room for error in an already minimum item level setting.

With regards to “waiting and seeing”, both MCH and DRK waited the entirety of Stormblood to see changes. RDM waited until Patch 4.4 to see buffs to its potencies. WHM dealt with the defunct 4.0 Lily system the entire expansion, despite the 100+ page threads on here warning the developers that it was a poor mechanic since the Stormblood media tour. Given these precedents, simply “waiting and seeing” doesn’t always seem to work.

[redheadturk]

You can pry Resurrection out of my cold, dead hands. I have saved parties in normal content from wipes *more* than once with it by raising a healer.

[Dogempire]

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

That and people would bring 4 red mages because dualcast raise is really broken, especially if you have mp potions.

[Kabooa]

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

Nah, you just get rid of vuln stacks and !#%$ing murder people instead by giving the Boss -damage up- stacks for every mechanic failed.

[ForteNightshade]

Nah, you just get rid of vuln stacks and !#%$ing murder people instead by giving the Boss -damage up- stacks for every mechanic failed.

Not going to make much impact if you have all four tanks and the boat load of mitigation they provide.

[Kabooa]

Not going to make much impact if you have all four tanks and the boat load of mitigation they provide.

Ramping damage up stacks outdo all the mitigation tanks bring, sorry.

If 6 people fail your mechanic, that's 6 damage stacks.

How's that 4 tank strat looking on Titan when he's sporting +60% damage?

[SaitoHikari]

FFlogs will be the downfall of this game. My apple at the 95% percentile is less tasty than my orange at the 70% percentile...call this balance??

I know this comes as a shock, but FFlogs actually isn't to blame for this perceived imbalance this time around. Maybe because this imbalance is actually REAL this time and the site is showing us hard data about how bad it is, and not a community created concept that excluded certain classes lacking party buffs in the past for the sake of a personal ranking. The website suddenly not existing isn't going to change the fact that there's a huge gap between the top and the bottom DPS, something that has never existed to this level before.

Again, a member of the top DPS dying will usually still contribute more than a member of the bottom DPS performing at a high level without dying. That is a fundamental problem that should never exist, because it means certain party comps can easily afford to make mistakes while others cannot. The uproar is louder this time around because for the first time ever, we are starting to see a situation where most parties may consider class to be a greater factor over the player's skill if this gets any worse, and they probably wouldn't be objectively wrong for doing so depending on how the fights are tuned. And with how historically slow the developers have been at addressing these issues, we absolutely need to light a fire under their asses preferably before the first Ultimate or the next raid tier this expansion.

The raise tax for RDM/SMN being that much is absolutely bonkers too, considering the skill itself won't really help in the majority of raid situations where a death or two may already spiral into not beating enrage. It becomes an oxymoron at that point.

EDIT: I decided to take a stroll around the JP forums to see what they had to say about the situation, and it seems they have the same thoughts as we do. Except it's even more unanimous over there, it seems. Seems like only on the English forums do we have people arguing that the current situation is fine.

I even saw a post where someone suggested increasing the role buff effect from 1% stat boost to 3-4%, but quickly retracted that as soon as they realized that it'd basically wreck pug parties and fights would be tuned around its existence, making it a band-aid solution at best.

[IruruCece]

While jobs may have still had imbalances in the past, they are nothing like the current imbalances between the top 3 damage dealers (MNK, BLM, DRG), and the ones at the bottom (SMN, RDM, DNC, BRD, MCH). There are anywhere from 1,000 rDPS to 2,000 rDPS differences between the jobs with very little reason for such a large gap to exist. The balance could definitely be much better, and the only way to draw attention to it—short of simply boycotting the jobs as players did with MNK and NIN—is to make threads about it, and then hope the developers read them and take them seriously. This isn’t even to mention how SAM still deals less in terms of rDPS compared to a melee that has utility (MNK).

As for the physical ranged thread, I don’t recall anywhere in the opening post of that thread that states that the role would be “EXCLUDED from ALL CONTENT FOREVER”—just that they will start seeing exclusions in more than just Savage via the trickle down effect metas tend to have. Some of the physical ranged have already been excluded from Savage since the tier dropped—DNC being one of them. They were locked out of early Titan progression and clear runs due to their lower damage leaving less room for error in an already minimum item level setting.

With regards to “waiting and seeing”, both MCH and DRK waited the entirety of Stormblood to see changes. RDM waited until Patch 4.4 to see buffs to its potencies. WHM dealt with the defunct 4.0 Lily system the entire expansion, despite the 100+ page threads on here warning the developers that it was a poor mechanic since the Stormblood media tour. Given these precedents, simply “waiting and seeing” doesn’t always seem to work.

Screw the Savage meta. The people who help "trickle down" that garbage are not worth actually listening to for anything.

People who exclude specific jobs from party comps are either actually pushing the very limits of this game, or they are pretending they can outside of Savage for some reason and are trying to imitate those who are while also having a very crappy attitude to be around. No developer should listen exclusively to either one of those groups. 5.08 was never, ever promised to be the grand fixes that Samurai or Ninja are in need of, nor was it intended to be the nerfs some of the angrier folks in this community were expecting the current dps kings to get slapped with.

If Samurai want to be king DPS so badly, they should also have to play the same ridiculous keyboard bemani than Nin or Smn do to go along with the huge bursts they get to squirt out just for following a rotation correctly.

[Katie_Kitty]

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

Who needs three healers when you can just bring RDM and SMN. :-)