Two months into Shadowbringers, do you find yourself still using Trusts?

[grinkdaboy]

god no

i ran holminster switch once and it took 2-3x longer than if i were doing it with live players. i would have to do it 3 more times in order to level them so they would be able to do the level 73 dungeon.

at that point i'd rather eat a bullet than waste my time like that. daily roulettes are much better for getting a job to 80

[Alleo]

god no

i ran holminster switch once and it took 2-3x longer than if i were doing it with live players. i would have to do it 3 more times in order to level them so they would be able to do the level 73 dungeon.

at that point i'd rather eat a bullet than waste my time like that. daily roulettes are much better for getting a job to 80

2-3 times longer? Of course if you have a great player group you might be able to finish these dungeons (with good gear) in maybe 15 minutes but three times longer would be 45 minutes. Honestly most of my runs are around 30 minutes with them and for most random groups thats probably only like 10 minutes longer. (And as a DD I have zero wait time)

Could you elaborate on why you think Trusts are good but Squadrons are not? Squadrons, once you get the damage rank, go very fast (faster than most DF groups). Meanwhile Trusts go slower than most DF groups by a decent margin (in my experience).

Not the person you quoted but I still wanted to give an answer to that because I too see the trusts as better than the squadron. (All my squadrons are max level and have most of their stuff unlocked..and I have over 100 runs with them)

Trusts are tailored to the dungeons. Sometimes they die (especially a certain healer and a certain BLM..) but most of the time they will stay alive, will rezz death people and work mostly fine. I can run as a DD to groups of monsters and pull them back to the tank and he will get them off me quite fast.

My squadron experience: A lot of the 50er dungeons feel like being nearly impossible to do, especially if you are the tank. They dont do mechanics at all so you will get target by everything alone thus you have to micro manage them so that they stack with you for example in Sohm Al or stop attacking certain things.

The healer AI is just utterly horrible..they only start to heal when you are quite low and wont stop their DPSing even if you are nearly dieing. No matter how many buffs I pop I wont survive it if they are throwing a stone out at the moment instead of using the slow heal spell..I dont know how many wipes happened because of that and if you need to pop your "oh shit" buttons with a normal pull of one trash group then there is imo something wrong with that AI. I have given up on doing certain dungeons as a tank because I get hit with everything, they dont do mechanics and the healer wont heal me. They can also rezz but will always wait until after the fight..which means that I have to have certain potions with me to rezz the group while endangering myself at the same time.

The tank is not much better. They are holding out a bit more so I can pull bigger groups with them but I need to click on every single mob a few times with engage because unlike with Trusts they dont aggro all of the mobs at the same time..Which means (since everyone starts attacking with engage) that the healer and DD NPC will get a lot of the monsters at first..and I also have a lot of monsters on my back (sometimes being killed thanks to it). The tank also seemingly likes to turn bosses towards the group..

The DDs are probably the best part of the squadron because of their damage but as soon as they get monsters on them they will try to walk away. Also not always using their DoTs and skills like that.

Before the nerf to Engage you could run certain dungeons quite fast. With that much power you could also kill lots of bosses before they could harm you..after the nerf a dungeon (since I want all the exp) will still at least take up to 20 minutes..the micromanaging of them can be annoying and dieing as a tank because I pulled one group also gets old after some time. Changing their behaviour does not do much and I wished that they would have made the healers truly just be healers..

With trusts I only have to be careful at bosses (but me dieing with squadrons also ends the run and I get hit will all the stuff there too) otherwise I can run forwards as a DD and pull more stuff to the tank who will take it from me and is able to survive it. I also was able to survive more than one trash pull as a tank myself. Sometimes they might die to bosses but I barely had any deaths when I leveled them all to 80. I dont want to count the amount of death my squadrons had. They know were to stand and at least still do some DPS and I dont have to micromanage them. The runs are taking a bit longer but are less stressfull and theoretically you could just run into the next trash and the tank will get everything and you can go afk or look at the envoirment. With squadrons you have first need to make sure that the tank even has the aggro at all.

[LaylaTsarra]

2-3 times longer? Of course if you have a great player group you might be able to finish these dungeons (with good gear) in maybe 15 minutes but three times longer would be 45 minutes. Honestly most of my runs are around 30 minutes with them and for most random groups thats probably only like 10 minutes longer. (And as a DD I have zero wait time)

Don't forget to count the queue times if you're a dps especially. I've not had insta queues for expert or those dungeons even as a healer so after all is said and done I'm sure the time invested is about the same.

[Alleo]

Don't forget to count the queue times if you're a dps especially. I've not had insta queues for expert or those dungeons even as a healer so after all is said and done I'm sure the time invested is about the same.

That too. Which is why I am a bit skeptical how a run can take especially three times longer if you are comparing it with randoms. Might be possible with friends that are great players with awesome gear but when you start out and play a DD it might even be just faster with trusts.

[MomomiMomi]

after the nerf a dungeon (since I want all the exp) will still at least take up to 20 minutes

My longest dungeon is The Vault which takes me 18 minutes. One of my dps isn't even maxed out yet. Everything else takes less time than that, usually 15 minutes.

Don't forget to count the queue times if you're a dps especially. I've not had insta queues for expert or those dungeons even as a healer so after all is said and done I'm sure the time invested is about the same.

Only if you sit there doing nothing but stare at your screen during your queues.

[Alleo]

My longest dungeon is The Vault which takes me 18 minutes. One of my dps isn't even maxed out yet. Everything else takes less time than that, usually 15 minutes.

Do you kill everything? Are you the tank or the DD/healer? My runs go a bit faster when I am not the tank because the NPC tank can take more damage. I am not at the vault yet with them but anything under 50, especially when I want everything will take quite the time. I am not sure if 15 minutes is possible then.

[MomomiMomi]

Do you kill everything? Are you the tank or the DD/healer? My runs go a bit faster when I am not the tank because the NPC tank can take more damage. I am not at the vault yet with them but anything under 50, especially when I want everything will take quite the time. I am not sure if 15 minutes is possible then.

I've used them as all three roles. Most of the time I do kill everything. There are some exceptions, like Dzemael Darkhold where there's stuff that requires you to go quite out of your way to get to them. In cases like that, you get more exp/hr if you just skip them.

Also, as a tank, you can turn your tank stance off if you're really struggling. The dps can honestly tank better than you.

[Alleo]

I've used them as all three roles. Most of the time I do kill everything. There are some exceptions, like Dzemael Darkhold where there's stuff that requires you to go quite out of your way to get to them. In cases like that, you get more exp/hr if you just skip them.

Also, as a tank, you can turn your tank stance off if you're really struggling. The dps can honestly tank better than you.

I am not sure if its a sign of great coding if you need to not be the tank as a tank to survive. IMO just fix the healer AI and a lot of headaches would be gone.

Still you must be quite good at it because I finally finished the Aurum Vale runs and I cant see how that will ever be cleared by me in less than 19-20 minutes. I cant tank more than two packs at a time and my tank died when I pulled half of the first room. Then the wait for each of the morbol "children" to spawn because they give much more exp that way and then later if you let the tank pull big it can go quite wrong because they are all over attacking different NPCs because the tank is too slow.

I just prefer trusts. They might be slower but had me less annoyed at the same time. And I would say 97% of the times that I died was because I made a mistake..only the first boss at Holminster as a tank was a problem because the healer first did not heal me. But turning him a bit and moving near them solved that.

[MomomiMomi]

I am not sure if its a sign of great coding if you need to not be the tank as a tank to survive. IMO just fix the healer AI and a lot of headaches would be gone.

Trusts are definitely better designed. They actually put effort into them. Meanwhile, squadrons were made OP simply so that they wouldn't have to put a ton of effort into designing them. I just wish trusts were better designed and just as good as the squadrons. Either increase their damage, make them AoE, or both.