Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

[Drayos]

Nope. Make changes to other classes where required. Why make people who currently are enjoying the class upset when u can bring up other classes a bit?

To prevent a power creep reducing the difficulty of content?

[Aelin_Ashryver]

To prevent a power creep reducing the difficulty of content?

Power creep? Lets say u get a group right now that's dps is DRG, MNK, BLM and BRD. The bard having had a buff to be a bit better dps is not going to make smth like e4s massively easy? Besides with more people getting better gear and with more on the horizon ALL content will get easier to clear. That's just what happens. People losing their minds over the thought of not nerfing a class they've taken a dislike to. The only time it's gonna make a clear noticeably easier if its a full current non meta class dps group, and it SHOULD because it is broken for it to be a huge struggle with some classes vs others. And if power creep becomes a big issue that devs care for they can increase bosses hp ever so slightly so its still about the same clear time as is now. But I don't think that would be needed at all..

[ForteNightshade]

Power creep? Lets say u get a group right now that's dps is DRG, MNK, BLM and BRD. The bard having had a buff to be a bit better dps is not going to make smth like e4s massively easy? Besides with more people getting better gear and with more on the horizon ALL content will get easier to clear. That's just what happens. People losing their minds over the thought of not nerfing a class they've taken a dislike to. The only time it's gonna make a clear noticeably easier if its a full current non meta class dps group, and it SHOULD because it is broken for it to be a huge struggle with some classes vs others. And if power creep becomes a big issue that devs care for they can increase bosses hp ever so slightly so its still about the same clear time as is now. But I don't think that would be needed at all..

Except Bard needs a lot more than "a bit" in terms of buffs. In fact, lets see what each job you've listed is pulling at the 95th percentile in Titan.

Black Mage: 14,561
Monk: 14,508
Dragoon: 14,246
Bard: 13,012

That is a difference of 1,200-1,500 rDPS. In order to bring Bard up to a comparable level, they'd need somewhere like 900 more flat rDPS. That much of an increase means you will absolute stomp on all the current DPS checks if you're halfway competent. Good groups are already skipping things like Quietus and the last sit of Tumult spam. Hardcore groups are almost skipping Black Smokers. While yes, our ilvl is increasing. Why make Eden's Gate even more trivial when the better solution is nerfing the jobs down to a balanced level?

[MaelleRiou]

To prevent a power creep reducing the difficulty of content?

Buffing the jobs that are behind wouldn't really do that since there's enough jobs already doing that level of DPS. If it was like, just monk and black mage up at the top and everyone else was around the same then nerfing would make more sense.

[ForteNightshade]

Buffing the jobs that are behind wouldn't really do that since there's enough jobs already doing that level of DPS. If it was like, just monk and black mage up at the top and everyone else was around the same then nerfing would make more sense.

Except it was only those two, and DRG who were dominating. Now NIN joined the party while five other jobs remain at the absolute bottom and Samurai wonders what it will take to actually get meaningful buffs.

[reyre]

Except it was only those two, and DRG who were dominating. Now NIN joined the party while five other jobs remain at the absolute bottom and Samurai wonders what it will take to actually get meaningful buffs.

Hey, you know what other class said that for 2 expansions? MNK huh...how peculiar is to be on the other side for once....

[ForteNightshade]

DPS should never be balnced around complexity? Really? so i guess NIN and SMN are A okay and everyone is just exagerating, right? They are not complaining about having to press 50+ buttons (and doing mecahincs) do less DPS that a class that has to press 2, nah that is just an exageration.

Ninjas and Summoners are complaining because they're contributions were/are incredibly lackluster. It doesn't matter how complex or not the jobs are if they feel like garbage. Balancing around complexity just leads to the same issues we're already seeing. Case in point, Samurai. It is arguably the easiest DPS in the game yet also one of the least popular in Savage. Why? Dragoon and Monk utterly demolish it rDPS wise. And it isn't like either are significantly harder to figure out. One might argue Dragoon is just as easy.

Hey, you know what other class said that for 2 expansions? MNK huh...how peculiar is to be on the other side for once....

And? You don't make a job overpowered to compensate for bad design.

[Metalwrath]

Ninjas and Summoners are complaining because they're contributions were/are incredibly lackluster. It doesn't matter how complex or not the jobs are if they feel like garbage. Balancing around complexity just leads to the same issues we're already seeing. Case in point, Samurai. It is arguably the easiest DPS in the game yet also one of the least popular in Savage. Why? Dragoon and Monk utterly demolish it rDPS wise. And it isn't like either are significantly harder to figure out. One might argue Dragoon is just as easy.



And? You don't make a job overpowered to compensate for bad design.

Dragoon is a lot more complex than monk is to play currently.Sure the rotation may seem simple enough.But there is a lot to the timing and lining up buffs and high end use of the likes of elusive jump to maximize dps potential.Dragoon is massivly punishing for making a single mistake in rotation or having jump animations delay combos ever so slightly if timed wrong which can have a snowball effect.
Monk is currently just easy mode especially with so much of a crutch for hitting positionals with the 2 charges of true north that regenerate so fast.It's doing way too much damage for minimum effort.

[Reilyn]

Dragoon is a lot more complex than monk is to play currently.Sure the rotation may seem simple enough.But there is a lot to the timing and lining up buffs and high end use of the likes of elusive jump to maximize dps potential.Dragoon is massivly punishing for making a single mistake in rotation or having jump animations delay combos ever so slightly if timed wrong which can have a snowball effect.
Monk is currently just easy mode especially with so much of a crutch for hitting positionals with the 2 charges of true north that regenerate so fast.It's doing way too much damage for minimum effort.

Like I, and others said before, I don't care about the effort it takes to play a MNK.

I care that its existence in its current form creates the perception that SAM is a redundant discount MNK, and isn't a priority when a number of people are seeking players for groups.

Hey, you know what other class said that for 2 expansions? MNK huh...how peculiar is to be on the other side for once....

Another pearl clutcher who feels like MNK is owed this.

[reyre]

Ninjas and Summoners are complaining because they're contributions were/are incredibly lackluster. It doesn't matter how complex or not the jobs are if they feel like garbage. Balancing around complexity just leads to the same issues we're already seeing. Case in point, Samurai. It is arguably the easiest DPS in the game yet also one of the least popular in Savage. Why? Dragoon and Monk utterly demolish it rDPS wise. And it isn't like either are significantly harder to figure out. One might argue Dragoon is just as easy.

Ok wait stop, if we are seeing the same issues and correct me if i am wrong, so far the jobs were not balanced around complexity but party contribution, ehh what are you suggesting that is any different?
So lets take what you wrote, SAM is probably the easiest DPS in the game and so far its the least played, because it does the least ammount of DMG yes? or more precisly rDPS, so what i understand for what you are writing is that an easy class, that is both easy to master and has almost no restriction in how it deals dps (it has no inhereit mechanic that can lower its dps, ie positionals and such) deals the least ammount of DPS...
Perhaps i am not reading what you wrote with the proper focus, but it seems that ehh it kind of follows what i was writting. While i do understand the sentiment behind it, it simply doesnt follow what you are saying.

You don't make a job overpowered to compensate for bad design.

Ok...but that was not what i mean when i wrote that, i meant it as an honest surprise, its really fascinating to see how many people read what they want to read instead of either asking if they are right or not assuming they are. Either learn how to read, and by extention how to ask questions or/and dont assume anything.
Either way to actually answer the very asinine "and?" you are right you should not do that, yet they stubbornly refuse to fix MNK in any way shape or form, so why is it that the best(only, apparently )way that they can muster up in balancing, its met with such resistance? could it be that its because they have no clue what to do with MNK? Nah cant be it. IN case that i wasnt obvious my point is, they should not have waited this long (2 expac) to addres MNK but since they did, why should MNK regress so that everyone else feels satisfied? that seems pointless, because honestly (and sadly) that is what a nerf would do, its a trully a shame, the class needed a rework, but they did not, they cant balance it (or dont want to) so what is the actuall solution? Just ignore it again then?