So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Melichoir]

While I agree that the Lv50 raids are a wee bit overnerfed, 24man IS FF-XIVs equivalent of LFR and I would set the difficulty at MoP LFR. Mechanics matter somewhat, enrages are nonexistent. You actually can wipe if you mess up but it isn't all that likely unless the bosses are new.

I dunno about other people, but I felt Dun Scaith had the appropriate balance of difficulty for a 24man. Yes people would wipe on Scattach (or whatever the Queen was called) but its cause people needed to pay some attention to what was going on. While I like the play and feel of SB 24 mans, they were easier IMO than HW.

The problem isnt then to make them easier, its frankly is to gradualy ramp difficulty up and start punishing players for just afk button pushing and expecting to be carried to free loot. This isnt an elitist thing, nor is it an issue of "Get lost casuals" but increasing the player skill floor enough that people actually can do these things without getting frustrated and quitting after 2 wipes. Thats gonna require the 4 man dungeons and 8 man trials (non ex) to increase in difficulty, particularly the MSQ dungeons and trials. Get people accustomed to the idea you can wipe, that you need to play better, that spamming 1 or 2 skills isnt going to cut it, that you ahve to use CDs and what not. Most players will rise to the challenge for the sake of MSQ, particularly if its semi gradual. A small handful will rage quit and come back mid xpac to be carried through older content. But yeah. Raising the skill floor would take care of all these issues with DPS meters, content being faceroll easy, etc. It's just the devs have to actually be brave enough to do it and bite the bullet that a few players will quit. Theyll probably make up for those losses over time though as the quality of the player base and game increases though.

[Granyala]

I dunno about other people, but I felt Dun Scaith had the appropriate balance of difficulty for a 24man. Yes people would wipe on Scattach (or whatever the Queen was called) but its cause people needed to pay some attention to what was going on. While I like the play and feel of SB 24 mans, they were easier IMO than HW.

Yup, and imho the math boss and Hashmal in Stormblood were pretty much on par with Ozma and that queen. They all feel pretty equal in difficulty to me, only void ark + the lv 50s suffer from overly lenient gear scaling. But it's okay, they're ancient content by now.

[Melichoir]

Yup, and imho the math boss and Hashmal in Stormblood were pretty much on par with Ozma and that queen. They all feel pretty equal in difficulty to me, only void ark + the lv 50s suffer from overly lenient gear scaling. But it's okay, they're ancient content by now.

Math Boss and Hashmal were good bosses. But Im of hte mindset we need to increase difficulty of the dungeons from the bottom up. If that means increasing exp values as well so it evens out, so be it. But more difficult dungeon content to help raise that skill floor for players, especially at the lower levels, will be better overall. The issue with current dungeons is they end up teaching players to face roll content instead of teaching them "Yes, you can wipe in this content, even with better gear. So play better and pay attention."

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Crystal Tower has become LFR difficulty amd in my opinion needs to be rebuffed a little to undo that...

These raids shouldn’t be savage level wipe feats but they shouldn’t also make Sastasha Normal with no green leafs look hard by comparison...

To be fair, you can and will still see wipes on WoD. And sometimes even in LotA.

But in all honesty: When CT hits, it was endgame-content. You had all your abilities, a proper rotation and you class played very different. Now Endgame starts at level 80 and there are 2 (soon to be 3) alliance-raid-tiers above that. Which means CT now is low level content - a stepping stone for still green leave newbies halfway through the game - and it should play like that. I mean, you are missing most of your skills and your rotation can be mapped on a mouse without a problem - a normal one without 12 buttons on the side. So I don't mind to sweep right through it. After 3 add-ons it's just here for the story and XP and that's okay.

[Liam_Harper]

As long as savage content is tuned for the expert, not casual, people, I find it appropriate to have a test, like SSS, mandatory for the unlock. Yes I agree someone doesn't understand what savage is, and will whine in forum because their casual play doesn't let them pass.

Ah, you're talking Savage. Fully agree with that. In fact it might even serve as a barrier to keep the unprepared player from wandering in there without realizing.

It is job dependent, but SSS is and has been overtuned. Google "are ffxiv SSS dummies overtuned," and it will return plenty of posts--some with SE admittance(source citations peppered about even).

This is exactly what I mean. The dummies are perfectly fine, yet rather than admit to any faults even when presented with clear proof like other players beating these dummies, players will claim "overtuned" and refuse to learn to improve.

It varies a little, but SSS is tuned very well this expansion. I'd bet half the players claiming it's overtuned have no idea what weaving or clipping is, miss positionals, don't bother to meld, undervalue the important of DoTs or min-max abilities and so on, yet are convinced "my rotation is perfect!" and turn to excuses like "see someone else said it's too hard!".
EX is minimum 430 ilv, but that assumes you're raid prepared, melded, food, perfect rotation. It's endgame and SSS will test the same. If you can't be bothered to do that, it gets easier with gear. At 445+ you can blast through SSS with 20-30+ sec left on the clock. I have on every class I play and I'm fairly mid-average.

Honestly if you can't beat SSS it's all on you and you have no business in that content.

[Fynlar]

Not a fan of the math boss; I am perfectly fine with basic math, but it still took me months of not realizing why I was failing it and getting killed before I learned how to do it correctly because I didn't realize that it used your HP to give your "response" and that the 1-2-3-4 platforms you stand in are not supposed to be your "response". It wasn't explained very well.

Good ol Ghostie thought a lot of things in his time, some of them were solid and understandable, but most of them gave the world Cataclysm.

Yep. People remember Ghostcrawler fondly because he ran WoW in it’s highest numbers but rhey forget that he took over when WoW was at it’s highest and by the time he left it was at its lowest until BfA undid all the gains of Legion...

Ghostcrawler didn’t save WoW... he toon the number 2 MMO, #1 in the west, and drove it downward.

I think we ought to evaluate the position/statement being made moreso than the status of the person making it.

[Crushnight]

I like the math boss, i got to teach 6 members of my static 1 is not a prime number XD

[Melichoir]

I like the math boss, i got to teach 6 members of my static 1 is not a prime number XD

Gawd. Stop being such a mathlete and carry them!

Serious, that was a fun mechanic. Wish they were clever about stuff with more bosses. You cant cheese that, you gotta think for a second and choose the right answer.

[SleepyNeko]

Ah, you're talking Savage. Fully agree with that. In fact it might even serve as a barrier to keep the unprepared player from wandering in there without realizing.



This is exactly what I mean. The dummies are perfectly fine, yet rather than admit to any faults even when presented with clear proof like other players beating these dummies, players will claim "overtuned" and refuse to learn to improve.

It varies a little, but SSS is tuned very well this expansion. I'd bet half the players claiming it's overtuned have no idea what weaving or clipping is, miss positionals, don't bother to meld, undervalue the important of DoTs or min-max abilities and so on, yet are convinced "my rotation is perfect!" and turn to excuses like "see someone else said it's too hard!".
EX is minimum 430 ilv, but that assumes you're raid prepared, melded, food, perfect rotation. It's endgame and SSS will test the same. If you can't be bothered to do that, it gets easier with gear. At 445+ you can blast through SSS with 20-30+ sec left on the clock. I have on every class I play and I'm fairly mid-average.

Honestly if you can't beat SSS it's all on you and you have no business in that content.

I agree that SSS can be used as a lockout for savage but it needs to be tuned properly. SSS is overtuned for certain classes because they have different HP values for different classes. I remember trying to clear GNB's SSS for Inno Ex with max gear (prior to savage release) and it was always short by 2-3 seconds. But on my MNK with like 440 gear I had like 15 sec to spare.

[Fynlar]

I like the math boss, i got to teach 6 members of my static 1 is not a prime number XD

I still think it's crap that it isn't, to be honest. It's pretty similar to my feelings about how Pluto should still be a planet.