Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

[Sunako]

Damage difference between smn and blm is insane. I played blm myself on e4s because our group would not have enough dps if I would play smn. That 1.5k extra rdps make huge difference can you clear the fight or not.

[Lastelli]

BLM is exactly where it should be as a dps focused on nothing but damage.

Is that so?

Can you please elaborate on why >10% rdps difference between jobs in the same role is ok? If your answer is "because raise" let me tell you already that's a moot point as history proved that having access to an additional raise is not such a valuable utility.

Incidentally, can you provide some info about your main character? Just a curiosity of mine, I like to know if who I'm talking to has the slightest idea about the main topic of discussion. Of course you're free to ignore me.

[Fannah]

Mesuring real time clear against rDPS always will be a problem I guess.
If 2 teams starts an HL raid at 19h and the 1rst team ends at 21h30 with 10% dps less (cause SUM) while the 2nd team ends only at 22h30 with 10% dps more (thx BLM). The 2nd team has maybe a better video to show on youtube cause higher dps to show off while the 1rst could end the content actually faster and are glad of what they did even before the other group they know they struggled more than them.
As long as your team doesn't lack dps to clear, I see no real problems, especially if you're not rejected for that (which you can report as actually no job is not enough to clear content if played well). If we lower BLM DPS to fit the one of summoner, while we remove their Raise, will you be ok as no longer rDPS differences?
I understand people would like to have like a mode to have a trade off (kind of like role skill that would make you choose between safety (having raise) and "dps mode" (a stance with +10% dps?), but what I meant with my post is that real time clear actually matters too, which is what safety provides you. And restarting even just once a content makes you lose way more time than having -10% dps.

[Miminming]

Nobody in their right mind asking lower BLM dps to the same as SMN dps, that will kill BLM... no need to repeat 4.0 tragedy!

Arent people hyperbole things too much!? People only ask to smaller the gap which right now is around 1500...

I also dont agree with just debuff SMN/RDM when they use raise, the should always pay the tax for just having it as an option, its just that the current dps tax is way too much for what its worth

[Fannah]

Of course no one wants BLM to have as low dps as SUM, haha.
I was just saying. But then knowing people don't like nerfs. That means makes SUM and RDM DPS higher (from DPS or rDPS). What raise should cost then? 500dps? 800dps? What an instant raise should cost so most people are glad with the overall balance? Once again, what's the value of safety for real time clear instead of just "DPS" and "rDPS"?

[Lina_Slayer]

I find it insane how BLMs and SMNs are always on each other throats while melee are allowed to be as overpowered as they can, MNK is better than BLM by every metric possible (always ahead on rDPS, sometimes ahead on aDPS while having Mantra which is not much but is something), but since SMN and RDM are clearly undertuned it's somehow BLM's fault, back in the beggining of SB it was the opposite, meta was basically 2 physical ranged plus 2 melee, but BLM's were all blaming SMN for their problems, while nerfing SMN would not give BLM anything and would just force triple melee when possible or someone would have to learn the clunky mess that was SB's MCH.

But I guess "muh melee uptime" while calculations are done with actual fight circumstances in mind and there not only melee (SAM,MNK,DRG) are killing everybody else bar BLM, there was the fact that I remember seeing numbers for Titania EX all but proving that lower percentile melees are doing more comparatively to lower percentile casters (I could go and do the same for the Savage Raids, but I'm lazy) and any melee that struggles even a little is going to receive love as soon as possible, with SAM and its huge gap to the 5th DPS being one of the priorities for buffs, while RDM and the physical ranged are ignored in the Living Letter.

[Miminming]

I dont think thats how it work, you cant compare a melee to a caster or ranged they are balanced differently with each other plus and minus...

MNK, BLM, DRG is overpowerd everybody realize that, hence in PLL yoship mention bringing up NIN, SAM and probably SMN (i believe he didnt say anything about bringing SMN dps up), RDM is weird they actually have better rdps than SMN atm in e4s but people still lock them out... as for ranged right now you could said ranged is the most balanced compared to the other dps group...

[Lina_Slayer]

I dont think thats how it work, you cant compare a melee to a caster or ranged they are balanced differently with each other plus and minus...

MNK, BLM, DRG is overpowerd everybody realize that, hence in PLL yoship mention bringing up NIN, SAM and probably SMN (i believe he didnt say anything about bringing SMN dps up), RDM is weird they actually have better rdps than SMN atm in e4s but people still lock them out... as for ranged right now you could said ranged is the most balanced compared to the other dps group...

I disagree, it's clear SE wants to force a 1+1+1+X (caster+melee+ranged+wildcard), the problem is that it seems X is always melee for some reason, while it should be way more interchangeable, the fact freaking SAM is getting a buff because of how OP others are (remove the clearly OP jobs and SAM is the most OP job by a long shot) and DNC or RDM are not even mentioned in the LL is concerning to say the least...

[Lastelli]

I disagree, it's clear SE wants to force a 1+1+1+X (caster+melee+ranged+wildcard), the problem is that it seems X is always melee for some reason, while it should be way more interchangeable, the fact freaking SAM is getting a buff because of how OP others are (remove the clearly OP jobs and SAM is the most OP job by a long shot) and DNC or RDM are not even mentioned in the LL is concerning to say the least...

This game has always encouraged a double melee comp. We have 4 melee dps with 3 different gear sets (compared to 3 physical ranged and 3 casters that share the same gear). In a full party, having 2 melee dps ensures the presence of 4 melee (tanks+melee dps) and 4 ranged (healers+ranged dps), and this also makes the most sense in terms of encounter mechanics.
As such, the golden rule for the dev team should be the following: balance dps jobs so that all jobs belonging to the same role provide approximately equal rDPS, and differentiate roles so that melee dps>magical ranged dps>physical ranged dps. At the same time, the rDPS difference between roles should be lower than or equal to 1% of the combined rDPS of a well optimized party. This is how you achieve balance, there really is no other way. Do they want "utility jobs" to pay a utility tax? Fine, but let it be 1-2% max...not the mess we have now. The current situation is just laughable.

[Drayos]

Nobody in their right mind asking lower BLM dps to the same as SMN dps, that will kill BLM... no need to repeat 4.0 tragedy!

Arent people hyperbole things too much!? People only ask to smaller the gap which right now is around 1500...

I also dont agree with just debuff SMN/RDM when they use raise, the should always pay the tax for just having it as an option, its just that the current dps tax is way too much for what its worth

u are taxed For Raising.

its called the 260+ Potency Lose for using the damn spell :P lol, Even if BLM and Summoner equalled in DPS if the Summoners Rezzing players u think hes going to get a 99 percentile with you? No. ur taxed As its a DPS Loss to use the utility. same for RDM.

We are Double Taxed for it, Once upon having the Ability and another time for using the ability.

Raise is a Progression tool and has no lasting effectiveness among a Raid, as Once u stop dying u stop needing it. so no a Defensive Utility should not be Balanced Offensively, theres several punishments already surrounding raises.

the RDPS Summoner and RDM Provide should mean that BLM is above them in Personal DPS, however RDPS Is very different, this is Buffs+DPS Combined... our Combined totals SHOULD not be that far behind a BLMs. as The DPS we give you should make up for the DPS We Dont do compared to you.. so this should be the Equilising factor, thus Meaning theres No loss between taking a Supportive Job or a Pure DPS Job.. as they both Overall have the Same Value.

the raise meme needs to die, Because you are taxed for using it, its not a OGCD u cant weave it, you are losing DPS For the use of the abiltiy as ur giving up a GCD for the Raid and Caster GCDs can be rather huge in potency per ability.

its Significance to the first Enrage should not doom it for the Entire farm period of content. BLMS getting irritated by the idea of RDM being the Progressive job for the caster Role for 5 pull;s, yet Wonders why RDMs get irritated by having to swap across to BLM for the next 30 Kills of the clear. we're irritated about it for the same reason ur irritated about being unfriendly towards Progression.

the difference is they handed u guys Mobility and more to help battle this and did nothing to fix RDMs problems in Farm runs.

if u think verraise/Raise is soo good, take it, Nerf it, Its Really not worth the trade off we're taking for having it. Tbh i'd be More for Nerfing Caster rezzs and getting a 2nd Charge of Swiftcast.. it'll give healers More instant rezzs to support the loss of it in the caster role.