Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

[Vendalwind]

Assuming SE doesn't want to expand support kits to make them worth the gap, or get rid of them, the intended goal would seem to be following: rDPS of damage buffers should exceed selfish DPS, but only in a good party and only if they feed selfish DPS.

Crossing the gap on good/bad play would suggest the best way to do that is making the buffs stronger, but their multiplicative nature makes the math hard. Making buffers pDPS close to selfish pDPS with only small rDPS increases from buffs to close the gap is hard because then it's difficult to ensure the gap is only crossed if you feed a selfish (the only reason they're there).

Hard to obtain balance numbers that close BUT
I did this somewhat simplified math awhile back. It's pertinent so re-linking it: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...88#post5131288

EDIT* also you are right, making the buff numbers even more significant would make balancing this way easier as the ranges could be looser, and even tho I'd like to see buffs contribution become more significant I 100% know that if : "Trick attack Dmg bonus increased from 10 to 20%" was ever seen on a patch note the community would lose its $#!+

[Lauront]

BLM is exactly where it should be as a dps focused on nothing but damage.

[kajv95]

Ruin 2 is 160 potency vs Ruin 3 at 200. Tell me again what downgraded damage instant cast option Healers get?

DoTs are instant cast and can be planned around. Astrologians get Lightspeed which essentially gives them a 15 second window of free movement. White Mage has a free heal instantcast gcd every 30s that can be stacked up for a while, as long as it is used within the 90 second window (to prevent hitting a cap), with Afflatus Misery at the end so it always works towards damage in the end, not to mention I don't think a healer is going to cry as much on missing or clipping one GCD as opposed to, I don't know, a dps, whose SOLE purpose there is to do damage. Stop conveniently putting everything in a vacuum of 5 seconds for a moment, and look at the full picture and kits. Healers have plenty of movement options when planned accordingly. Job effectiveness is allowed to vary by skill.

Assuming SE doesn't want to expand support kits to make them worth the gap, or get rid of them, the intended goal would seem to be following: rDPS of damage buffers should exceed selfish DPS, but only in a good party and only if they feed selfish DPS.

Crossing the gap on good/bad play would suggest the best way to do that is making the buffs stronger, but their multiplicative nature makes the math hard. Making buffers pDPS close to selfish pDPS with only small rDPS increases from buffs to close the gap is hard because then it's difficult to ensure the gap is only crossed if you feed a selfish (the only reason they're there).

Basically this, tbh. All we want is to atleast compete. The rdps max potential is way too far off from the selfishes, to the point where the selfishes don't need us and will perform fine, yet if we don't have them our potential goes even lower. It's not a balance, and one can cry raise or movement all they want but there is virtually no point to bringing some jobs with this much of a gap. If the rdps can be patched up to compete with the selfish jobs by working in tandem with them, there should not be issues. selfishes can dominate pdps while the rest has a scale of who brings more rdps by virtue of being damage only and who has some extra tools to help some things, but never should it be on the scale of what it is now.

BLM is exactly where it should be as a dps focused on nothing but damage.

Yeah, usually the argument on our side is "Selfish jobs are where they need to be, but we aren't"...

[geekgirl101]

BLM is exactly where it should be as a dps focused on nothing but damage.

It's way too OP, makes the game boring when everyone rerolls BLM just for big D numbers.

[Lauront]

That statement by itself is meaningless. "OP" in relation to what and by what metric? Unless you know where the developers want damage (raw dps) to be tuned at, the statement is just a claim pulled out of thin air.

I can see the argument for MNK or DRG being too potent because they are exceeding pures (MNK flat out, DRG compared to SAM) whilst bringing utility to the table. I just don't get what the complaining about BLM is for, other than some people want their job to be in its spot, when they should not be and will not be. SMN and RDM could do with a buff and rework but that's nothing to do with BLM being OP and more to do with problems with those jobs. Because when looking at logs, it's not BLM's performance which sticks out to me as anomalous given its role as a selfish dps.

Assuming SE doesn't want to expand support kits to make them worth the gap, or get rid of them, the intended goal would seem to be following: rDPS of damage buffers should exceed selfish DPS, but only in a good party and only if they feed selfish DPS.

Crossing the gap on good/bad play would suggest the best way to do that is making the buffs stronger, but their multiplicative nature makes the math hard. Making buffers pDPS close to selfish pDPS with only small rDPS increases from buffs to close the gap is hard because then it's difficult to ensure the gap is only crossed if you feed a selfish (the only reason they're there).

This at least makes sense to me and I agree on that last point. It is indeed tricky to achieve because you have to ensure the selfish dps gets more traction out of (scale better with) the buffs, but that could mean having to tolerate bigger gaps in pDPS, even if rDPS contribution is higher, as well as the fiddlier maths. Still, I think it's a better route to focus on than the latter option, which is just unsatisfying for all concerned and effectively means you're just a selfish DPS with a bit extra and thus it becomes easier for selfish jobs to be edged out by those with utility and vice versa.

Yeah, usually the argument on our side is "Selfish jobs are where they need to be, but we aren't"...

Except SAM, it's really too low at the moment and should be at parity with BLM. My point is that the focus is misplaced, as it's not BLM which is the problem (unless the devs think those levels of damage are higher than intended for clearing content and making it too easy, but that's a separate question), but whether the utility certain jobs bring justifies their pDPS levels being where they're at.

Not having anything to contribute to the party other than your own personal DPS should come at a price. No worries of where to place utilities you dont have when and where.

Yes, let's erase those pesky selfish dps from existence, because of perceptions of "difficulty" based on timing/placing utilities... that's fair.

The price paid is having nothing to contribute to a group but damage, meaning your personal performance becomes all the more significant but also that you will not get into a raid if your job is not capable out putting out damage adequate to justify a spot. We can argue over whether some jobs, like RDM, bring enough utility to justify their current pDPS, but perceived difficulty (which doesn't even follow from the concerns you mention) is a non-factor in balancing DPS.

[Drayos]

It's way too OP, makes the game boring when everyone rerolls BLM just for big D numbers.

there are more Dancers and Dragoons then BLMs :P

[Dortharl]

It's way too OP, makes the game boring when everyone rerolls BLM just for big D numbers.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

[KageTokage]

It does really seem like they overbuffed both MNK and DRG when looking at how much their potencies went up by in ShB compared to NIN/SAM.

To a degree it was done to alleviate the loss of the slashing/piercing/blunt debuffs but they had a significant net gain in damage across almost all of their weaponskills while NIN/SAM are scarcely breaking even on a lot of their skills.

[AikenDrum]

I really hope this is sarcasm.

It's just common sense, for same amount of time i can either learn how to play rdm better and get say 500 more dps, or spend it on learning how to play blm at basic level to get 1000 more dps.

[Miminming]

I seriously believe nobody actually think the current dps difference between BLM and SMN/RDM or MNK and NIN is fine...

People who say its fine is mostly maining the OP side of the job...

That aside SE need to decide the power balance between group melee, caster and ranged first then the balance inside the said group, right now caster is in the top 2 and bottom 3 of all dps which make it extremely unbalance...