5.08 Nin buff / 5.1 Ninja getting gutted...

[Tenryou]

Ok so since there's like a billion walls of text i'm just gonna address a few things i saw.

1st i don.t think nerfing things at this point is good idea when they raid dps checks are so tight and if they continue trend you are gonna need that dps. truth be told dont want to see them nerfed i want to see any comp be viable to beat a raid. and not monk/drg/blm *throw whatever 4th here*

2nd personal dps matters with these dps checks 1k rDPS isn't gonna make up for the 3k gap that is trending between ninja and the other melee
As it stand nins are basically a 4th physical ranged dps when you look at how low we are. Bring our PERSONAL DPS up by 2000-2500 and then outrage would be less than it is but also do not neglect the other issues stated. then the balance of trick vs.pdps is met and class is fun. Nobody wants to be dead weight and if they do well.....

3rd I am all for fixing the class. Would love for ninjutsu system to function like Dancer's Steps less chance to loose a 20 second cd to ping latency etc. also if they did this make sure we still have access out teleport like dance does their movement skill.

i don't mind being a support class,i mind being a class so bad people actively shun you from content because they find you to be a burden.

[oph]

Here's me hoping they don't butcher the Mudra system for something even more clunkier and less fluid, just make it possible to use other skills during ninjutsu windows like giving it a time window that pops once you hit the first mudra and then you have like 7s to 'complete' the jutsu while throwing the skill on cooldown immediately, also get rid of the bunny and give it a 2-3s reset option if you hit the wrong mudra key instead of sending it into full CD.

[kidalutz]

At this point I've completely given up on trying to point out that people need to act like thier adults and write logical responses on possible fixes to a class/job

[osutin]

Hey guys, do we have fixed dates for 5.08 and 5.1 yet? Wondering if I should start leveling NIN up from 70 now, or if I should wait a lil longer to see how the updates change things.

[TaiyouSeishin]

Rogue in WOW for example has also been a top tier DPS option, but it has had ALOT of iterations of Vunerability and Aggro management tools, WoW Just never Nerfed their Personal DPS to compensate for the quantity of Utility the job has-

Firstly, about this. Im not sure about WoW NOW. But in its peak time WotLK, and Cata, (legion indeed had a good player base, but i dont count that one) no one was pigeon holed into anything. You had assass rogues who were top dps in the game, but you know why you only brought one? Everyclass provided a benefit, also since you couldnt change classes on your character (had to have an alt) gear would drop that ypu would prefer go to someone who would use it, because disenchanting, while helpful is ultimately a waste of high end gear.

Could you double up on rogue? Yes, but it would be more effective to have two.different specs. Also, utility in that game was not NEARLY as impactful. Yes, blessing of might was a high stat buff, but they were willing to forgo that for other buffs, if another was needed. Synergy was still key despite how "powerful" one was. Buffs were nice but not so mandatpry you couldnt down content.

Even the hard core built their grpups based on what people wanted to play, what was needed, and what was most effective. WoW fudged up everything after that because they worried about "mandatory builds"

Thats how their downfall started, and look at them now. They homogenized they class so much, in legion they essentially made each class have almost completely seperate sub classes.

They worried about people not playing what they want because "we already have a rogue, we want a dps pally" or "we have a warlock, so we want an ele shammy" so made it matter less so you can double up if you "want to". Well, no need to worry if you have at least one of every class (WotLK/Cata) so lets double up, would probably do better dps anyway.

WoW never needed to be concerned on nerfing classes dps for its utility, because ultimately someine either brought the same or their own that was wanted anyway. Also, majority of the time, that outside of the top raiding guilds, the bulk of the rest of the playerbase, competed toe to toe half the time, regardless of class. Pruning and homogenizing utilities, is how it started not necessarily them nerfing their personal dps for compensation.

That said, we wont know until 5.1 im hoping they dont butcher mudra. I understand utility is what they want you to focus on and to be impactful, but the concern over meta caused them to overvalue some utilities, and essentially undertuned some classes... (though i dont know the excuse they have for SAM)

[Drayos]

Firstly, about this. Im not sure about WoW NOW. But in its peak time WotLK, and Cata, (legion indeed had a good player base, but i dont count that one) no one was pigeon holed into anything. You had assass rogues who were top dps in the game, but you know why you only brought one? Everyclass provided a benefit, also since you couldnt change classes on your character (had to have an alt) gear would drop that ypu would prefer go to someone who would use it, because disenchanting, while helpful is ultimately a waste of high end gear.

Could you double up on rogue? Yes, but it would be more effective to have two.different specs. Also, utility in that game was not NEARLY as impactful. Yes, blessing of might was a high stat buff, but they were willing to forgo that for other buffs, if another was needed. Synergy was still key despite how "powerful" one was. Buffs were nice but not so mandatpry you couldnt down content.

Even the hard core built their grpups based on what people wanted to play, what was needed, and what was most effective. WoW fudged up everything after that because they worried about "mandatory builds"

Thats how their downfall started, and look at them now. They homogenized they class so much, in legion they essentially made each class have almost completely seperate sub classes.

They worried about people not playing what they want because "we already have a rogue, we want a dps pally" or "we have a warlock, so we want an ele shammy" so made it matter less so you can double up if you "want to". Well, no need to worry if you have at least one of every class (WotLK/Cata) so lets double up, would probably do better dps anyway.

WoW never needed to be concerned on nerfing classes dps for its utility, because ultimately someine either brought the same or their own that was wanted anyway. Also, majority of the time, that outside of the top raiding guilds, the bulk of the rest of the playerbase, competed toe to toe half the time, regardless of class. Pruning and homogenizing utilities, is how it started not necessarily them nerfing their personal dps for compensation.

That said, we wont know until 5.1 im hoping they dont butcher mudra. I understand utility is what they want you to focus on and to be impactful, but the concern over meta caused them to overvalue some utilities, and essentially undertuned some classes... (though i dont know the excuse they have for SAM)

Sadly Wotlk was a very different time.

However once fights started to involve the mechanical aggressiveness they began too, the rogues toolkit could be used to completely nullify damage done to the raid, it was also able to control aggro and perform one of the highest dps. Among more.

It was common practice in a lot of world firsts and things rogues would be stacked to the heavens to take advantage of these factors.

[Nielk]

would be nice if they give the only melee its job trait of poison daggers increase melee 20% they took it away left mnk/drg job traits alone what the heck is this.

[KageTokage]

would be nice if they give the only melee its job trait of poison daggers increase melee 20% they took it away left mnk/drg job traits alone what the heck is this.

This is honestly is probably the core reason why NIN is in such a bad spot right now.

DRG/MNK got potency buffs that give them overall higher potency even when factoring in the loss of piercing/slashing debuffs, while NIN's "buffs" are only compensating for the loss of Dripping Blades and the slashing debuff. SAM is actually in a similar position and its potency increases only covered the loss of slashing debuff and didn't actually go up overall.

Not sure how they could mess up at balancing in such a fundamental fashion and I really hope they just buff all of NIN/SAM's combo moves appropriately to remedy it in 5.08. Currently the only weaponskill they have that actually has a reasonable potency is Gust Slash post 5.05 buff.