Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

[Numenor1379]

There is always going to be a top DPS. The question is WHERE that level is going to be set. It may be that SE likes the numbers BLM has, in which case it won't be nerfed but have other jobs tuned around it. Or perhaps MNK is the correct standard... or SAM, etc.

The point is that we do not know how SE is thinking on these numbers yet.

[Cetonis]

Come back out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber though?

No.

That's not how balance in this game has ever, ever worked.

People have always looked to the speedkill meta, since the moment speedkills have existed, to determine what jobs are better or worse. Jobs that were even 2% behind have been labeled as trash bin status.

Even though it doesn't matter directly to more than a scant few players, player perception of game balance is almost always based around how things compare at the highest levels of play, in any game. FFXIV is no different.

BLM was considered bad in 4.0-4.3 because it brought less damage than Summoner. Caster res had nothing to do with it other than adding salt in the wound. When it got buffed and became meta, it was considered good by the broader public. No asterisks about caster raise at all; nobody cared.

RDM was in the trash bin for the whole expansion, despite being far better at ressing than SMN, because it was behind SMN on damage production. Nobody cared about the res thing. It never mattered to anyone after world prog was over. RDM was just bad, period. That was the public opinion. A job for newbies only.

You are vastly overrating the degree to which people actually care about battle res. Obviously, if things are clearly equal or sufficiently close, they'll take the res job because why not. But "sufficiently close" is a few percent at best.

I sincerely doubt the party struggling to meet an enrage with no deaths is going to get more mileage by swapping their caster to Black Mage compared to, I don't know, tightening up their rotations. And's before buffing Summoner and Red mage to that level.

You can't just say that BLM's increased damage shouldn't make or break a clear, without recognizing that caster res shouldn't make or break a clear either. At the end of the day, caster res is also just about increasing damage output, except it only does so on messy runs.

If BLM's added damage is worthless, then caster res is even moreso, because it provides far less damage in the very large majority of cases than BLM does.

[Kabooa]

You are vastly overrating the degree to which people actually care about battle res. Obviously, if things are clearly equal or sufficiently close, they'll take the res job because why not. But "sufficiently close" is a few percent at best.

Sufficiently close is literally what's being asked for.

As I've stated. Get rid of it, or share. I don't care which. Then you can close the gap all you want. Hell, shoot past it if that tickles your fancy.

[SaberMaxwell]

Sufficiently close is literally what's being asked for.

As I've stated. Get rid of it, or share. I don't care which. Then you can close the gap all you want. Hell, shoot past it if that tickles your fancy.

Trust me, I'd love to get rid of and so would Wayfinder. Sucks to be the only role who needs to be balanced by an inherently negative utility like raise.

[Kabooa]

Trust me, I'd love to get rid of and so would Wayfinder. Sucks to be the only role who needs to be balanced by an inherently negative utility like raise.

Should have let us have it when we asked for it.

[SaberMaxwell]

Should have let us have it when we asked for it.

Cuz it was always red mage's decision whether black mage had raise lol

I've been on team "casters shouldn't have raise" since Deltascape. It's too situational and unquantifiable, and if any job should be able to spam raise as an identity it should be a healer.

[Kabooa]

Cuz it was always red mage's decision whether black mage had raise lol

I've been on team "casters shouldn't have raise" since Deltascape. It's too situational and unquantifiable, and if any job should be able to spam raise as an identity it should be a healer.

See, I always leaned towards "Role Action", because then you can very easily tune it to be a nifty, desirable thing. At the time, this was specifically because without raise, there was a real possibility of the ole Machinist / Bard set up coming back in. They brought every utility the caster role did but better, and played well they weren't slouches on damage.

Just like. 5 minute cooldown, instant cast, no death penalty. In today's climate though, I am definitely leaning more on the 'just get rid of it' side of things, but a part of me still very much wants more stuff, not less, across all the jobs.

[Zerathor]

BLM also used to be only 800 rdps higher than RDM and 400 rdps higher than SMN and it was still a meta pick in Alphascape savage, so I guess having it within 500 of SMN wouldn’t make it irrelevant as it was plenty relevant in alphascape savage optimization

500 within smn. Back when we all did like half as much dps. Big think here, what's 500x2, and where are we now? Almost like the ratios aren't too different from alphascape? Just a bit lower but not ridiculous. Not to even mention a lot of groups have been funneling their blm/drg/mnk, so it only inflates the perceived gap further until everyone has bis.

Also I was referring to the majority of the expansion. Not the final 33%.

[aiqa]

500 within smn. Back when we all did like half as much dps. Big think here, what's 500x2, and where are we now? Almost like the ratios aren't too different from alphascape?

Also I was referring to the majority of the expansion. Not the final 33%.

Median pDPS difference between SMN and BLM for Alphascape savage was 140 higher pDPS for BLM, and that is not even counting SMN raid buffs.
So when adding in SMN raid buff that would be close to 0 difference.
Median rDPS difference between SMN and BLM for Eden Gate savage is 790 higher rDPS for BLM.

[Zerathor]

Median pDPS difference between SMN and BLM for Alphascape savage was 140 higher pDPS for BLM, and that is not even counting SMN raid buffs.
So when adding in SMN raid buff that would be close to 0 difference.
Median rDPS difference between SMN and BLM for Eden Gate savage is 790 higher rDPS for BLM.

And in what world was it considered a good design choice to make the then more mobile casters with a raise ever be that close to a pure damage job? It wasn't. It was broken for smn. It was beyond broken. Smn mains don't want the game to be ballanced, they want to be the undisputed best caster for prog and speed runs again and pretend it's fair. It never was.