DRK do you wish you get Stalwart Soul at LV45 like the rest of the tanks?

[cactuarzzzz]

If you want to male claims about dps then use numbers. No one in thisnthread has actually shown any data to support the base claim that drk is bad at aoe damage vs other tanks.

If you use every action and ability on CD that is an aoe on drk pre 70 you end up with 93 potency per second.

Gcd 150/2.5. 60pps
Passive mp regen tics (15tics. 250pot) 16.66pps
CS 600mp/min 5.55pps
Salted 900pot/90sec. 10pps
AD 200ppt/min. 3.33 pps.
BW mp 200pot/min. 4.166pps
Bw blood. 1 quietus/min. 60pot over 150 gcd. 1pps

Total: 84.88 pps.
Darkside bonus 10%. 93.37pps.

War: same deal.
Gcd combo: 66pps
Infuriate. 1pps (becomes 1.416pps for decimate lv 60)
Total: 67pps (67.41 at 60)
Eye buff 10%. 73.7 pps (74.1 at 60)

Zerk is a little wierd because it depends on what gcds you use and crit gear, but if you just assume you are using everything on cd and it roughly doubles damage its a flat boost of 22.22% overall.
Zerk estimate 90.07pps (90.63pps at 60)

Wow. Much difference. Drk so gimp. War 90 vs drk 93 which is about the difference of using better gcds during zerk. If you want to look at other tanks rotations be my guest but ive made my point. Tank dps is VERY balanced at all stages right now. Single target. Aoe. While leveling. At cap. This is the most balanced offensive state tanks have ever been in.

The mp gain of 2nd combo alone is a 12 pps gain which is utterly massive when everones in the low 90s.

If you dont like the way a job feels to play, by all means dislike it. But dont just make wild unsubstantiated claims of imbalance balance because youre bored in a lv 55 dungeon on drk. This is not the 1st thread that just blindly claims drk aoe damage is sub par and needs mega buffing at low levels.

Drk has more aoe actions and ogcds to manage at low levels. I suspect that is why they limited it to 1 aoe gcd. Just look at the list of potencies. War has 2 gcds, infuriate and the gcd you get from infuriate. Thats it. Thats their dungeon play. Drk has 1 gcd and many ogcds, ground effect, etc to manage. So you want to talk about boring? Every tank is boring at low levels. Thats what we get with ability crunches.

Tldr: drk damage is perfectly fine. Every tank is slow and boring in low level dungeons.

1 Flood cost 3000/10000 MP.

And I play PLD,GNB. They're not slow and boring. I can spam AOE COMBO at no cost and kill all mob that stand in my path easily. Meanwhile DRK below Lv.72 is mp starving.

[Vaunhause]

It's fine because they get Mana *and* Blood w/ it at 72.

If they removed the mana and blood until 72 or something as a trait and gave it early, it'd be okay, too.

But the damage is not that big of a difference while leveling, and any additional cds gained for defense is not that noticeable either at a low level, since your 20 and 30% is more than enough for basically any big pull prior to 70 as Drk

[Izsha]

1 Flood cost 3000/10000 MP.

And I play PLD,GNB. They're not slow and boring. I can spam AOE COMBO at no cost and kill all mob that stand in my path easily. Meanwhile DRK below Lv.72 is mp starving.

I accounted for the mp cost if you read the post. Both in passive regen and from all actions that give mp at those levels. So your point is?

If you think hitting ABABAB is some amazing engaging gameplay drk is missing out on instead of hitting AAAAAA then youre entitled to your opinion. I see no real difference between them. Managing that mp and ogcds on timers is FAR more engaging than having no resources to manage and spamming 2 buttons in sequence for entire dungeons. But again, liking or not liking a playstyle is personal preference. Dps, however, is not an opinion. In this regard tanks are the most balanced they have ever been. You want to talk about trash pull mitigation and subjective 'fun-ness' go right ahead.

[cactuarzzzz]

I accounted for the mp cost if you read the post. Both in passive regen and from all actions that give mp at those levels. So your point is?

If you think hitting ABABAB is some amazing engaging gameplay drk is missing out on instead of hitting AAAAAA then youre entitled to your opinion. I see no real difference between them. Managing that mp and ogcds on timers is FAR more engaging than having no resources to manage and spamming 2 buttons in sequence for entire dungeons. But again, liking or not liking a playstyle is personal preference. Dps, however, is not an opinion. In this regard tanks are the most balanced they have ever been. You want to talk about trash pull mitigation and subjective 'fun-ness' go right ahead.

The topic is DRK below 72 and it isn't balance when DRK can only use 3 floods, about 6 six when using blood weapon for the first pull and then went MP starving at the next wave. You talk about "manage" so tell me how're you going to manage the flood that cost 3000/10000? by wait for the Syphon Strike to regen or wait 60 seconds for a tiny mp regen from Carve and Spit? and during that time how're you going to aoe when both Syphon Strike and Unleash is GCD?

GNB AOE combo potency is 400
Palandin AOE combo potency is 340
DRK's Unleash potency is 150

Paladin Circle of Scorn full potency is 295 with 25 secs recast time.
DRK's Salted Earth full potency is 300 with 90 secs recast time.

[Shurrikhan]

Warrior does not have to burn gauge to do an acceptable level of damage at low level. That is a strawman argument.

Neither does DRK, due to the massive potency increase of Flood of Darkness oGCDs, even if you were to only ever get 3-4 over the course of an AoE fight. We're talking up to an extra 1k potency from that alone. How many Mythril Tempest potency bonuses over Overpower would that take you, and how many seconds to put those out?

I'm not saying DRK shouldn't have stuff earlier, but its AoE output is sufficient over that level range.

[Absimiliard]

Stuff

There appears to be a miscommunication going on here. My complaints about DRK's gameplay in low level dungeons are limited to the pre-52 bracket. Chain pulling while continually starved of MP but also having nothing but Unleash until ticks bring you back up enough to use Flood again really isn't ideal, you have to admit. If you'll take a look at your own math, you'll see that I'm right. I'm not saying DRK is /bad/, I'm just saying you'd be better served using one of the other tanks in that level bracket.

Neither does DRK, due to the massive potency increase of Flood of Darkness oGCDs, even if you were to only ever get 3-4 over the course of an AoE fight. We're talking up to an extra 1k potency from that alone. How many Mythril Tempest potency bonuses over Overpower would that take you, and how many seconds to put those out?

I'm not saying DRK shouldn't have stuff earlier, but its AoE output is sufficient over that level range.

Odds are only your initial pull will see four floods. Subsequent pulls will probably involve a single Flood, maybe two if the DPS are slow. The majority of your time ends up being spent spamming a 150 potency Unleash while waiting for your MP to tick back up. Either way, I am not and have not made the claim that DRK has an unacceptable level of damage. My assertion was that it is the only tank job that has to burn such a large amount of MP to achieve the desired effect. Again, I reiterate that Flood itself is not the problem. Flood is a strong ability that gives you a lot of burst potential in low level dungeons. The only problem is that pesky MP issue when chain pulling. That's it. That is literally my only complaint about DRK's damage.

Okay! So now that that's hopefully completely over and done with, here's the real problem with DRK at low level: Its defenses suck pre-70. I'm surprised more people aren't bringing this up. Dark Mind might as well not even exist on most pulls.

[RiotSiren]

Honestly I couldn't care about how much damage it does at lower levels, its just REALLY boring to play under level72 since it just 1 button spam with a occasional oGCD in AoE.

[Flay_wind]

Honestly I couldn't care about how much damage it does at lower levels, its just REALLY boring to play under level72 since it just 1 button spam with a occasional oGCD in AoE.

And 3 buttons in the sequence spam is better because..?

[Sancho_Nyanta]

To me the main thing that feels bizarre about Drk in AOE terms is getting Quietus at 64 but not having a way to generate blood to use it outside of single target until 72. I mean we "technically" have Blood Weapon once per minute but due to the issue with Blood Weapon vs spell speed, unless you throw out a single target combo, you won't get enough blood to use Quietus until your next Blood Weapon.

[RiotSiren]

And 3 buttons in the sequence spam is better because..?

Because it's 3 buttons.

I mean it's not level80 nin rotation sure but its still more to do.
Plus it actually lets you play with the class resource more. I always find it odd how they gave DRK a AoE resource spender but not a AoE resource generator. Anyways DRK always just felt incomplete due to that and the fact that they lack pretty heavily in mitigation compared to the other tanks till 70. It just feel awkward to play at low level, its not a problem unique to DRK just seems out of place since all the other tanks get their 2nd AoE combo around level 40, which are all new in this expansion as well.