Is monk fun?

[Shurrikhan]

Except it wasn't? You could instantly apply BotD right back with minimal downtime whereas MNK had to rebuild from scratch over again and even PB had a small wind up to it due to requiring several GCDs to get GL back up.

Not when, I repeat, you do not lose the stacks to begin with. RoE does not help you regain stacks. It helps you not lose them. I've made no comparison between the two skills' ability to generate their respective resources, only their ability to maintain their respective resources.

In HW, we had no means of preventing us from clipping Demolish early outside of using ToD and Fracture to delay it as much as possible.

Technically, there was: a sub-1.85s GCD under GL3.

This is flat out wrong and honestly leaves me questioning your credibility to everything else you have just said as a result.

Are you incapable of dividing events per minute to calculate "GL per minute"?

2 Wind Tackles-Riddle of Wind combos per minute (as they are each on a... 30 second cooldown) = 2 GL per minute. Anatman has a 1-minute CD and is only optimal up to a single tick of the server tick during uptime, i.e. 1 GL per minute.

[Silver-Strider]

Not when, I repeat, you do not lose the stacks to begin with. RoE does not help you regain stacks. It helps you not lose them. I've made no comparison between the two skills' ability to generate their respective resources, only their ability to maintain their respective resources.

BoTD was still far more forgiving and had nearly double the duration of GL that it was still miles ahead of maintaining itself than GL and any of its maintenance tools. If GL lasted 30 seconds then it wouldn't be so farfetched a comparison but 16s max uptime vs 30s max uptime, even in the event that I was able to refresh GL prior to a transition and getting hit within the 16 seconds, I was looking at a 2s different BEFORE DRG hit BotD to get an extra 20 seconds on top. It's still a flawed comparison.

Are you incapable of dividing events per minute to calculate "GL per minute"?

2 Wind Tackles-Riddle of Wind combos per minute (as they are each on a... 30 second cooldown) = 2 GL per minute. Anatman has a 1-minute CD and is only optimal up to a single tick of the server tick during uptime, i.e. 1 GL per minute.

Except PB was on a minute long CD so to do the Tornado Kick Rotation on anything but in minute increments would be an absolute nightmare to actually pull off without being a DPS loss. The options were to get a weakened Demolish off due to having used Tornado Kick beforehand or having it land on a Snap Punch to minimize the losses, not to mention the reduced potency on the other skills you weaved during the build up to GL3 again.

[Shurrikhan]

BoTD was still far more forgiving and had nearly double the duration of GL that it was still miles ahead of maintaining itself than GL and any of its maintenance tools. If GL lasted 30 seconds then it wouldn't be so farfetched a comparison but 16s max uptime vs 30s max uptime, even in the event that I was able to refresh GL prior to a transition and getting hit within the 16 seconds, I was looking at a 2s different BEFORE DRG hit BotD to get an extra 20 seconds on top. It's still a flawed comparison.

What does generation matter to a maintenance tool if the maintenance tool is sufficient to maintain what it's supposed to maintain? For the third time now, I have never compared the generation of the two abilities, only their ability to maintain their respective resources. BotD is better, but when well used RoE can maintain GL in nearly every situation BotD can maintain BotD.

Except PB was on a minute long CD so to do the Tornado Kick Rotation on anything but in minute increments would be an absolute nightmare to actually pull off without being a DPS loss. The options were to get a weakened Demolish off due to having used Tornado Kick beforehand or having it land on a Snap Punch to minimize the losses, not to mention the reduced potency on the other skills you weaved during the build up to GL3 again.

Low SkS builds used TK per 30 seconds, not per minute. Even at a 1.82-second GCD, despite TK's scaling issues with SkS, I used TK 3 times per minute at a potency bonus over once per minute. I'm a bit shocked that you don't know this. It wasn't a nightmere so much as a faint Demo timing adjustment prior, easily dealt with.

[Silver-Strider]

...

Ok, so this is where me and you differed so it caused some confusion. I went the High SkS build that would run Tornado Kick every minute as opposed to the Low SkS build so I wasn't aware that the Low SkS build ran it every 30 seconds. That is on me and I will admit to being wrong there, sorry.

I still disagree with RoE being on par with BotD as far as maintenance goes but I'm going to agree to disagree on that point.

I think the main issue between us on this topic though, is how we view GL. You view it as a resource, I view it as nothing more than a glorified trait. It wasn't a proper resource until the Tornado Kick rotation came into existence and it seemed like SE viewed that as an unintentional design that they backed out on, putting it right back to trait status, so while you feel that this was the wrong move, I feel like it was whatever, I just roll with the punches, no pun intended. Would I like MNK's rotation to be more than what it is? Absolutely, but I never felt that GL was the way it should evolve as I felt that's what the Chakra system/Fist Stances/Riddles should have been how MNK was fleshed out with and now that SE has stopped fiddling around with GL mechanics, maybe we can actually get that to happen now.

[Shurrikhan]

...

To be fair, you can run almost 3 TK per minute over time on a max-SkS build for greater dps than 1 TK per minute, so long as your ping is decently low.

It's less that I think GL was always a resource so much as that it always should have been one in some way, and needs its limited duration in order to maintain its urgency. But, I don't think it needs to be nearly so strong (and therefore punishing to lose) as it is now. We now bank almost a 68% effective damage buff (1.4*1.2) into GL, where it originally only granted 5% Damage and 5% Attack Speed per stack (later 7%, then finally the 10% we have now), a roughly 33% bonus at maximum. I've also always thought it should fall off one stack at a time, albeit perhaps at lower durations each time (12/10/8, for instance), and perhaps have means of rapidly generating at decent frequency much earlier in the leveling process.

Or, to put it most simply, I just don't think having other, potentially better, mechanics means we should leave the foundations haphazard and dull. The foundations, especially, should be solid.