Ninja is weak, like very weak.

[KageTokage]

I really hope the next hotfix patch comes sooner then later because I'm getting annoyed with being denied spots in ES4 groups strictly because of my preferred class.

[SamSmoot]

Would people even be okay if the devs took Trick Attack away?

Either take it away, or make it a simple one button oGCD action, not the long cast sequence it has now.

[Darkstride]

I would rather have that high damage skill back which you had to use in front of enemies which shared the trick attack cooldown, it was much more fun to use.

That was Sneak Attack. It was high single target damage with no debuff and a front positional. Trick Attack was a lower potency attack with the 10% vulnerability debuff and a rear positional. They shared a cooldown so Sneak Attack was pretty much never used outside of solo play.

[HWalsh]

Again I'll say it. Ninjas have been the heaviest damage in previous FF games. Rogue, the class behind the Ninja job has likewise always been heavy hitting across MMORPGs for 20 years. Nothing about rogue screams I'm gonna buff peoples damage.

Incorrect.

Rogue and Ninja were outclassed in every way by Fighter and Monk in Final Fantasy 1.

[Baka_Neko1]

weeeeellllll, looking at rdps on a site like fflogs(i can't upload myself, so don't put that on me), NIN is even behind rdm on savage fights LOL

[Seraphor]

Incorrect.

Rogue and Ninja were outclassed in every way by Fighter and Monk in Final Fantasy 1.

True, but Ninja has consistently been about efficiently dealing more damage via what could be termed as tricks.
Dualweilding for example, is mainly what has enabled Ninja to outclass other jobs in the series.

Same is true for FFXIV Ninja.
It has a lot of 'dualstrike' style mechanics, which it needs to capitalise more on.

Also Kaethra, nothing about Ninja says buffing party members, no, but that's not what Ninja does.
Ninja DEBUFFS the enemy, lowering their defense, which is entirely fitting.
Ninja's in the series have typically been about dualweilding, and throwing weapons, and typically they can throw weapons hat inflict debuffs like poison or silence. Occasionally they can use low level black magick, or in a couple cases, throw out special ninja scrolls for elemental damage.

So it's the defense debuff, which allows Ninja to compete with the harder hitting DPS.
Either this will always be the case, meaning Ninja's personal damage will never be able to compete, or they'l have to nerf Trick Attack, and then buff skills like Dream within a Dream and Bunshin, to enhance the 'dualstrike' aspect.

[VirusOnline]

Look at the PF.
People are starting to purposely exclude ninja spots.
A PF party cannot cater to a ninja's needs/offers efficiently. So why bring an average ninja when you can bring the average monk who has the same or even lower ilvl and can outdps a ninja ?
TA is a gimp and a lousy one considering the fact that I have to bust my fingers on my keyboard to struggle getting close to a monk.

[Nemmar]

weeeeellllll, looking at rdps on a site like fflogs(i can't upload myself, so don't put that on me), NIN is even behind rdm on savage fights LOL

That's on trials only though. They seem to do better in the raid.

[KageTokage]

Looking at the target dummy HP values has made it pretty obvious that they severely overestimated how much personal DPS NIN would be outputting.

It's estimated that you need 11.65K DPS to destroy the ES4 dummy in three minutes, but the other melee only need about 1K more then that despite them doing around 2-3K more DPS.

[Akava]

The absolute highest is 14.3k and the absolute lowest is 12.3k.
A 2k or 14% variance.

And that's at the absolute max numbers posted for those jobs. The variance is smaller at the lowest end, coming at 11%.

The most interesting thing about that data set is that it shows a neat linear path from Dancer up to Monk in the severity of DPS loss when resetting their buffs/rotation. Keep in mind, I'm referring to core dps, not what these jobs manage in their burst phases.
DNC, RDM and BRD are all very easy to go from 0 - 100% dps.
NIN has some buildup to its burst, But generally speaking Huton into AE with SF up and you're back to normal. It's level with SMN and MCH, Both of whom can reset their rotations fairly easily, but not quite as easily as the aforementioned 3.
Then we have SAM as a middle ground between the complexity of the upper 3 and the relative ease of the ones below. Just 2 buffs, a DoT and you're good to go.
And finally, we come to DRG, MNK and BLM. All of whom suffer the most from a rotation reset. Monks with GL being a pain to bring back to max, followed by BLM who basically is forced into its 'down' phase in order to reset and finally DRG, which has a core rotation not unlike SAM but has stages to its rotation, and falling to start of that is a hefty GCD cost to get everything flowing again.

So out of 10 DPS jobs, NIN is tied for 5th place with SMN and MCH. And considering the aforementioned DPS variance of just 11-14%, Balance is in a surprisingly good spot right now. I wouldn't expect anything more than very minor tweaks going forward.

I couldn't disagree more with this. I've raided as a SCH, AST, NIN, SAM, DRG, BRD and now DNC. The only hard thing about being a melee is that you have to resist the greed factor when you see that AoE that's going to make you leave the boss for half a GCD. Ranged might have more up time, but because of that they usually are responsible for handling more mechanics.

A 10% disparity between rDPS, with the utility dps being on the bottom, is incredibly imbalanced. Why bother bringing a utility job and coordinating buffs to align with burst windows when you can just bring a bunch low utility jobs that can do more damage in any situation?