SMN Feedback after Savage Launch/Live Letter for 5.08/5.1

[Vitreus]

I feel like an "easier" solution would be to simply remove the whole "Egi Assault proc'ing Ruin IV" thing.

The problem then is that the Egi's are back to autonomous pets that aren't involved in our mechanics at all. If Egi assault was improved I think the mechanic interaction would be fine.

Otherwise, we'd get "unfavorable" scenarios like you (suddenly) needing Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor, yet couldn't because all Egi Assaults were used for Ifrit-Egi/Garuda-Egi earlier.

Maybe if each pet had its own independent Egi Assault CDs to compensate...

That's interesting because it could lead to summoners having to swap between summoned egi's in order to maximize dps. But at the same time it would make the job even busier which is the last thing we need at the moment.

[Exodus-E]

The problem then is that the Egi's are back to autonomous pets that aren't involved in our mechanics at all. If Egi assault was improved I think the mechanic interaction would be fine.

Not entirely autonomous, though.
Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor and Garuda-Egi's Slipstream were a step in the right direction in making them both, unique and useful depending on the situation.

That's interesting because it could lead to summoners having to swap between summoned egi's in order to maximize dps. But at the same time it would make the job even busier which is the last thing we need at the moment.

With Patch 5.05's adjustments, I think that's precisely what the developers wanted us to do (ie. swapping pets mid-fight depending on the situation).
But again, I feel like tying Ruin IV procs' into their actions kind of worked against that...

[CecMiller]

Not entirely autonomous, though.
Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor and Garuda-Egi's Slipstream were a step in the right direction in making them both, unique and useful depending on the situation.


With Patch 5.05's adjustments, I think that's precisely what the developers wanted us to do (ie. swapping pets mid-fight depending on the situation).
But again, I feel like tying Ruin IV procs' into their actions kind of worked against that...

I do not believe that the intended mechanic behind pets is to "swap" them. Garuda is primarily AOE and Ifrit single target. Further titan is a dps loss when compared to ifrit too. I think they just made it so that switching between one and another would be less of a dps loss as opposed to the intended way to use pets. This is because you can quick shield youself with a titan egi shield and then switch back if needed. Though, in practice, I never did this during savage and I'm unsure how this will impact things going forward. Its entirely possible that switching to garuda for enkindle and switching back is now a gain but using a move like slip stream and switching back will never be a gain due to how it disappears when you switch pets.

If pet swapping was the intended function, I think they need to show that in the individual egi actions as they are not so different outside of Titan Egi. Enkindle is the odd one out where Garuda's is the strongest for both single target and AOE which I dont think should be the case. Why in the world would you ever use Titan and Ifrit Egi Enkindles then when garuda's is the most potent in all scenarios? Its why I mention Enkindles in my post

[Exodus-E]

I do not believe that the intended mechanic behind pets is to "swap" them. Garuda is primarily AOE and Ifrit single target. Further titan is a dps loss when compared to ifrit too. I think they just made it so that switching between one and another would be less of a dps loss as opposed to the intended way to use pets. This is because you can quick shield youself with a titan egi shield and then switch back if needed. Though, in practice, I never did this during savage and I'm unsure how this will impact things going forward. Its entirely possible that switching to garuda for enkindle and switching back is now a gain but using a move like slip stream and switching back will never be a gain due to how it disappears when you switch pets.

Why else would they:

A) further "solidify" their roles (ie. Ifrit-Egi for single targets and Garuda-Egi for groups)?
B) completely eliminate their cast times for summoning them?
C) reduce their recast timers between pets from 10s -> 3s (as of Patch 5.05)?

Also, even if it's a DPS loss, sometimes you will end up in situations where you'll need further "survivability" instead (ie. swapping to Titan-Egi for its Earthen Armor).
It's all about their "situational" roles.

Now, this wouldn't be an issue at all if Summon II/Topaz Carbuncle/Titan-Egi was outright removed, but since they're so dead-set on us having 3 pets with different roles/functions (with one of them being "Support")...

If pet swapping was the intended function, I think they need to show that in the individual egi actions as they are not so different outside of Titan Egi. Enkindle is the odd one out where Garuda's is the strongest for both single target and AOE which I dont think should be the case. Why in the world would you ever use Titan and Ifrit Egi Enkindles then when garuda's is the most potent in all scenarios? Its why I mention Enkindles in my post

I agree that them still having different Enkindle potencies/effects is a weird oversight/afterthought.

Potency-wise, though:
A) Aerial Blast has 350 potency
B) Inferno has 200 potency + applies a DoT (20 potency for 15s). 200 + 20 x 5 = 300 potency (total)

Combined with their auto-attacks (Wind Blade's 40 vs. Burning Strike's 80), I'd say Ifrit-Egi is still better for single-targets.
As in, not swapping them just for their individual Enkindles.

[Dyvid]

Why else would they:
A) completely eliminate their cast times for summoning them?
B) reduce their recast timers between pets from 10s -> 3s (as of Patch 5.05)?

Also, even if it's a DPS loss, sometimes you will end up in situations where you'll need further "survivability" instead (ie. swapping to Titan-Egi for its Earthen Armor).
It's all about their "situational" roles.


I agree that them still having different Enkindle potencies/effects is a weird oversight/afterthought.

Potency-wise, though:
A) Aerial Blast has 350 potency
B) Inferno has 200 potency + applies a DoT (20 potency for 15s). 200 + 20 x 5 = 300 potency (total).

Combined with their auto-attacks (Wind Blade's 40 vs. Burning Strike's 80), I'd say Ifrit-Egi is still better for single-targets.
As in, not swapping just for their individual Enkindles.

Unfortunately the job is so busy as it is, pet swapping would make it even worse. I've tried to swap garuda and ifrit for enkindle it just felt awful. Now swapping Titan for shield sin't bad if you have a EA1 ready to use.

[Exodus-E]

Unfortunately the job is so busy as it is, pet swapping would make it even worse. I've tried to swap garuda and ifrit for enkindle it just felt awful. Now swapping Titan for shield sin't bad if you have a EA1 ready to use.

And that's exactly why I'm advocating for removing the Ruin IV proc' from their Egi Assault actions.
Otherwise, we'd get situations where you need its shield, yet you run out of charges for doing that (because you "prioritized" DPS'ing instead).

[CecMiller]

Why else would they:


Potency-wise, though:
A) Aerial Blast has 350 potency
B) Inferno has 200 potency + applies a DoT (20 potency for 15s). 200 + 20 x 5 = 300 potency (total)

Combined with their auto-attacks (Wind Blade's 40 vs. Burning Strike's 80), I'd say Ifrit-Egi is still better for single-targets.
As in, not swapping them just for their individual Enkindles.

This is incorrect as you do not understand what pet potency is.

Garuda and ifrit/Titan have different pet potencies. You multiple Garuda by 0.8 to get its real value and ifrits by 0.48. Thus, 350 garuda = 280 player potency and 300 Ifrit is 144 player potency. It is a much starker difference. The same is true for their auto attacks.

40*0.8 = 32 player potency vs. 80*0.48 = 38.4 player potency. Hencer per auto the difference is 38.4/32 = 1.2. Ifrit deals exactly 1.2x the auto of garuda.

As for your earlier comment, I think I've mentioned why they would do so. If they were intent on us swapping mid battle, they would give us more reason to do so and make it more obvious to do so. Currently, the only reason you swap is for adds (in which case you swap to garuda) or for potential greater enkindle potency via garuda. That is the only reason to do so.

[Vulcwen]

This is incorrect as you do not understand what pet potency is.

Garuda and ifrit/Titan have different pet potencies. You multiple Garuda by 0.8 to get its real value and ifrits by 0.48. Thus, 350 garuda = 280 player potency and 300 Ifrit is 144 player potency. It is a much starker difference. The same is true for their auto attacks.

Little caveat here, Enkindle always uses the 0.8 multiplier, even for ifrit and titan. Logic is sound for egi assaults and the standard attacks tho (rip ifrit auto attacks).

[CecMiller]

Little caveat here, Enkindle always uses the 0.8 multiplier, even for ifrit and titan. Logic is sound for egi assaults and the standard attacks tho (rip ifrit auto attacks).

Yep this is right - I made a mistake earlier. So its 280 potency for garuda and and 0.8*300 for ifrit which comes out to around 240 potency but can be larger with respect to your SS